[Jerry Kluger]

We can add others such as Bayonne, Blackstone, and so on as really good courses that opened this year - so is this a trend, is 2006 an especially good year - and what about public courses - any outstanding ones come on line this year?

[Adam Clayman]

Maybe this era will become known as the platinum age? Especially if the spread betwen gold and platinum continues to widen.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

To take a page from Steven Colbert:

"A Great Year, Or The Greatest Year?"

[Jerry Kluger]

Tommy: Quantity might be down but it seems that there is plenty of quality out there.

[Jason Blasberg]

It's truly a wonderful time to be a gcaphile.

[Adam Clayman]

I wouldnt limit it to the "greatest". Just grateful it's greater.

[cary lichtenstein]

Add Pronghorn Fazio and Erin Hills to the 2006 list, a very good year indeed.

[Jerry Kluger]

Are we seeing an expansion of great golf but almost exclusively in the private domain?

[Tom_Doak]

Jerry:

90% of the calls we get about new courses in the USA are for would-be private clubs.  The financials of daily-fee courses in metropolitan areas (and in resort markets such as Traverse City) have looked much different over the past five years.  Most people who are getting into the golf business just to build a cool project are aiming at the private-club market, so they can get their money back out in a shorter window.

On the flip side, 75% of the calls we get about overseas projects would be open to the public.

[Jerry Kluger]

Tom: It would appear to me that there has been a saturation of public courses in many areas, including the Washington, DC area where I live.  The old, established private clubs are thriving but the new ones are looking for members but the price tag is too high.  

[Tom_Doak]

Jerry:

You said public courses above at first, but did you mean the private club market is oversaturated?

That's entirely possible.  Golf course development is just like office development or residential development or any other form.  When there's a need, four or five people try to fill that need simultaneously, and then the market is oversaturated.  With golf courses it's even worse, because the courses which struggle out of the box get a poor reputation whether deserved or not, and they have a tough time overcoming it even as the market catches up to them.

[Lou_Duran]

Tom Doak,

How much of this is due to the costs for land and new construction?  Can you build a good Doak course for under $5MM turn-key anywhere near a sizable population center?  Can supply drive demand (as if you build it, they will come)?

Jerry,

In Texas for 2006, I would add Escondido (Fazio) and Boot Ranch (Hal Sutton/Jim Lipe) to that group.  I think both may be candidates in the 2007 Golf Digest "Best New Private Course" category.

[Tom_Doak]

Lou:  Does that $5 million include my fee, or not?

We have built a couple of courses recently with construction budgets above $7 million ... but we've also done a couple with budgets of around $2 million, on sandy sites.  Could you buy the land and build a small clubhouse and all the rest for $3 million?  Not in many parts of the world anymore, but the nature of the clubhouse and other facilities is clearly a big factor.  

[Lou_Duran]

Tom Doak,

Turn-key means everything including land, designer fees, clubhouse, maintenance facility, FF&E, financing costs, etc.  I was under the impression that Renaissance was all about the art and not the money.  Isn't there a connection between the quality of the art and the need and angst of the artist?  You're a lefty anyways.  What do you care about money?

Hal Sutton was reported to have said that if you get the art right, the commerce will come.  I've been knocking this around my mind for a few days and haven't come to a conclusion whether he is right or not.  This is in the context of his wonderful project near the Hill Country community of Fredericksburg, about 90 miles west of Austin.  Any thoughts?

[Matt_Ward]

Jerry:

The public side for 2006 has been rather lean from the travels I have made to different parts of the USA.

No doubt the private side is well documented by the title of the courses in the thread plus the addition of Blackstone which was mentioned.

The public is simply not as well-financed as the private side and when you begin to guild in remote areas the balance side for public courses to thrive becomes even less so -- ergo, places like The Yellowstone Club, etc, etc.

What does concern me is that very little is discussed here on GCA about those courses that are well crafted and offer a very affordable green fee -- places like Rochelle Ranch in Rawlins, WY, is just one quick example.

It's so easy to get caught up with all the mega places that employ the likes of Doak, C&C, Nicklaus, etc, etc, and fail to mention the examples of others. I try to always include such courses on my visits because it is from such courses that you can gauge the potential design superstars coming down the pike.

[Tom_Doak]

Lou:

If you get the art right, the commerce will come?  I've got clients who would take either side of that argument, so I guess that means it doesn't work out for everybody.

However, if you could really develop a very good golf course facility for $5 million all in, I would think that ought to work in most places.  Don't know how often it has been done lately ... not often that I have heard about.

Angst is overrated, we've done some good projects even after we all got above the poverty level.  But, we're always willing to work out a deal for the right project, and share in its success; our fees have never stopped a golf course from getting built.

Matt:

I don't know how many potential design superstars there are at any given moment, but while there is lots of competition in the heavyweight division of "Best New Private", there is certainly a chance for others to shine in the middleweight public course categories.  We've got four courses in the heavyweight division and none in the others this year, so I'm actively looking for another project that's open to the public.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom:

I wish you well with your search.

The NY / NJ metro area is really gearing itself to the high-end private clubs because the $$ is there. I can also see it when courses are being built in places far off the beaten track -- e.g., the amount of development alone in Big Sky, MT is truly amazing for a place that would not know a golf club from a baseball bat just a few years back.

I agree the public side is where you can find such unique and special places. Of course, one has to keep these matters in context because all the design "bells & whistles" cannot be included from a budget perspective.

I salute Ken Kavanaugh at Rochelle Ranchin WY, Rick Phelps at Devils Thumb and Antler Creek in CO, Baxter Spann in NW and Tim Liddy with his work at The Trophy Club in IN as just a few quick examples where such work has happened. No doubt there are other names but too many people on GCA are so narrowly focused on only the elite few.

I just have to wonder if all the effort on the private side has or will have some deep impact on the need for rising the bar design wise on the public side -- and I'm not referring to simply the CCFAD crowd but the taxpayer owned courses or others that keep their GF low.

[Steve Lapper]

You want more public here (and stay true to the Thread's title)? Add Lederach and subtract Liberty National.

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