[Ryan Heiman]

Anyone here ever play this course?

I play it regularly.  It is one of my favorite courses in the Twin Cities Metro.  But everytime I tell people I play that course and really enjoy it, they always are amazed.  They either say it is too hard or not their style or something.

What does this board think of this course?  I will post pics soon after I play it again.

[John_Conley]

I played it once 15 years ago.  It is okay.  I remember the 3rd nine was even hillier than the 18 I played.  I'd call it a good daily-fee option.  Average overall.  Probably a 3 on the Doak Scale.  Nothing a person would go out of their way to play.  Definitely the kind of place someone would enjoy playing regularly.

Twin Cities daily-fee golf is so vastly inferior to the top-tier private clubs.  I live in Orlando now where the best daily-fee courses are probably better than our privates.  A place like Mississippi Dunes can stand out as pretty good where there is a dearth of good public-access courses.  Want a course I do like?  Head on further down the river and play Winona CC.  Jeff Shelman told me they changed the name to the Bridges.  It is a true Hidden Gem.

One of my favorites for lower-end daily fee stuff out that way is Cannon GC.  The original 9 was designed by Willie Kidd.  Joel Goldstrand came in and left 3 holes untouched and routed a quirky, fun 18.  I recall one of the Minnesota posters on the board hating it, but I always had fun there.

[Ryan Heiman]

I played it once 15 years ago.  It is okay.  I remember the 3rd nine was even hillier than the 18 I played.  I'd call it a good daily-fee option.  Average overall.  Probably a 3 on the Doak Scale.  Nothing a person would go out of their way to play.  Definitely the kind of place someone would enjoy playing regularly.

Twin Cities daily-fee golf is so vastly inferior to the top-tier private clubs.  I live in Orlando now where the best daily-fee courses are probably better than our privates.  A place like Mississippi Dunes can stand out as pretty good where there is a dearth of good public-access courses.  Want a course I do like?  Head on further down the river and play Winona CC.  Jeff Shelman told me they changed the name to the Bridges.  It is a true Hidden Gem.

One of my favorites for lower-end daily fee stuff out that way is Cannon GC.  The original 9 was designed by Willie Kidd.  Joel Goldstrand came in and left 3 holes untouched and routed a quirky, fun 18.  I recall one of the Minnesota posters on the board hating it, but I always had fun there.

I think you might have the wrong course.  Mississippi Dunes is in Cottage Grove, MN. I think it is only 9 years oldand they only have 18 holes. www.mississippidunes.com   I think you are thinking of Mississippi National.

I agree I am often dissappointed in the Public courses, but then again I haven't been that impressed with the private ones either.

[John_Conley]

I think you might have the wrong course.  Mississippi Dunes is in Cottage Grove, MN. I think it is only 9 years oldand they only have 18 holes. www.mississippidunes.com   I think you are thinking of Mississippi National.

I agree I am often dissappointed in the Public courses, but then again I haven't been that impressed with the private ones either.

Wow, I do have the wrong course!  I think Mississippi Dunes opened after I moved away.  Is that Dave Tentis's place built by the dentist by hand or whatever?

'haven't been that impressed' with the private course options in the Twin Cities!?  Oh my, do we have different tastes.  

White Bear
Woodhill
Somerset
North Oaks
Interlachen
Minikahda
Minneapolis
Oak Ridge
Golden Valley
Hazeltine

I probably left one or two out worthy of mention.  That's 10 or a dozen that I consider terrific.

[Ryan Heiman]

Don't get me wrong,  I am not saying that the private ones aren't good, even great.  I'm just saying I'm not gaga over one course that I would want to plunk down that kind of cash for the same course over and over.  I admit I haven't been able to play all on that list, but some I have and a bunch more this fall.  I love variety.  I don't know of any clubs around the Metro that has more than 1 course included in their membership.  I also am not flush with money so 50,000+ up front is not going to fly in my household.  

[John_Conley]

Ryan, not wanting to play the same course over and over is understandable.  The thing about the Twin Cities is that the daily-fee courses are pretty ordinary.  The Wilds and Stone Ridge is a welcome addition.  I'm told there are others.  The new one at the casino, the Legends where Scottdale used to be.  

You wanna know a daily-fee course that has surprisingly good architecture?  Bristol Ridge.  I only played it once.  It's very good for a supe doing his first design.

Just a tip to you since I see you haven't even hit two dozen posts yet.  There isn't a lot of discussion on this board that centers on ordinary courses.  One friend from the board is in Minnesota for the first time today.  He played Interlachen this afternoon, has Somerset and Hazeltine tomorrow, and will probably play something like Windsong Farm, Golden Valley, or Minikahda on Friday.  That list is one of the least impressive I've seen him take.

If you want to start a thread that gets a big response you can provide us pictures of a love-child born to Seth Raynor after a midnight romp in the bunker with a call girl during the initial site visit for Midland Hills.

[Ryan Heiman]

Thanks for the advice.

It is hard to really contribute to many of the discussions since they tend to focus on many great private courses, that I simply do not have connections to ever get into.

I still love the site and love achitecture, but just wish there was a little more discussion about the public courses.  I know this crowd is all about the best courses period and many end up being private.  I guess that is just the way the business works.

Back to my point.  I don't think that Mississippi Dunes is your ordinary course,  that is why I brought it up.  they attempted to go private but from what I heard they couldn't get enough members because the course was too hard.

[John_Conley]

Ryan, you are right that discussion focuses on the best courses.  And that is the problem in the Twin Cities.  Braemar, Meadowbrook, Keller, Hiawatha, Gross, Phalen, Brookview.  Pretty good daily-fee stuff there just doesn't register.

Some of my favorites are Fox Hollow, Baker, and Majestic Oaks.  That said, I would suggest a visitor play any of the great old courses if they could get access.

Playing in MGA events can get you access to a lot of wonderful courses if you are a real strong player.  Other than that it is tough to get on them.  The MGA has a Chick Evans 7-club deal each year that runs about $250.  Maybe it is worth it if that's the only way on to Golden Valley, Interlachen, Minikahda, or White Bear.

[Rick Shefchik]

Ryan --

I'll weigh in on Mississippi Dunes. I loved the concept, loved the land, and Dan Kelly and I played there often the first few years the course was open. But we eventually tired of it because the maintenance was not equal to the high concept. Almost all of the greens are pushed-up plateaus, with approach shots rolling well below the putting surface if they missed the green by even a foot or less.

Given that the greens are very large, that shouldn't have been a problem -- but it should have been fun to recover from a missed green at MD. Instead of having the three options -- flop, putt or bump -- you really only had one option: the flop. The slopes around the greens were always spotty and uneven when we played there, with bare spots and crevaces that took away the ground game. I havent' played there for three or four years, and I don't want to slander the course if the maintenance is better now, but to me it was a course that would only work if it was in great shape, and it never was.

[Jim Nugent]

How does the Univ of MN course in St. Paul stack up?  I played it pretty many times in 1980, and even then it was short.  Does the new technology make that course pretty obsolete now?

[Ryan Heiman]

Ryan --

Given that the greens are very large, that shouldn't have been a problem -- but it should have been fun to recover from a missed green at MD. Instead of having the three options -- flop, putt or bump -- you really only had one option: the flop. The slopes around the greens were always spotty and uneven when we played there, with bare spots and crevaces that took away the ground game. I havent' played there for three or four years, and I don't want to slander the course if the maintenance is better now, but to me it was a course that would only work if it was in great shape, and it never was.

For the most part, I think conditioning is better than when you played.  Hole 6 a par 3 through the trees with a large drop off on the left side of the green, seems to always have some grass issues, but most of the other holes the collars and areas around the green are in good shape.  I always get to use all the shots you mention,  I use putter many times from the fairway or a bump shot into the hills that hop up real nice onto the green.

MN golfers if you haven't played it, you might want to give it a try for something a little different then the other courses.

Jim,

The Univ. of MN course plays way short, and unless they changed something in the last year or so, it is still very short course.

[Jason Topp]

How does the Univ of MN course in St. Paul stack up?  I played it pretty many times in 1980, and even then it was short.  Does the new technology make that course pretty obsolete now?

I played at the U during law school (early 90's and occassionally go back now).  It is a short course with spotty conditioning, but still very fun to play.  They were hit hard with Dutch Elm Disease and I think the loss of trees has improved, rather than detracted from the course.  Nonetheless, if you like quirk, interesting topography and fun, short par fives it is still a fun place to play.  Unless you hit it 280, it still has enough length.

[Jason Topp]

Anyone here ever play this course?

I play it regularly.  It is one of my favorite courses in the Twin Cities Metro.  But everytime I tell people I play that course and really enjoy it, they always are amazed.  They either say it is too hard or not their style or something.

What does this board think of this course?  I will post pics soon after I play it again.

I've only played it once and that was shortly after it opened.  I recall liking it fairly well, but have heard the same sort of comments that you relate.  Because I am on the other side of town, I have not gotten back there.

I really like Inverwood. Others are more lukewarm about the place.   Ryan - what do you think of that course?

[Ryan Heiman]

I really like Inverwood. Others are more lukewarm about the place.   Ryan - what do you think of that course?

I enjoy inverwood.  It is just a difficult walk.  I have walked it a number of times, since a good friend of mine is the teaching pro there, It runs just a little pricey when you pay for the green fees and the cart.  I also can't stand the slow play out there.  But as far as a course goes, I do enjoy the layout and variety.  It really is one of the better public courses around.  If they would only get some better conditioning. Their greens are also a little on the plain side.  Layout is great, scenery is great, just some of the little stuff could use some work.  It is a tough course.

[John_Conley]

How does the Univ of MN course in St. Paul stack up?  I played it pretty many times in 1980, and even then it was short.  Does the new technology make that course pretty obsolete now?

Jim, while I thoroughly suck now, I used to hit it real far when I drove it well.  One day I made it around with nothing more than a wedge into any of the par 4s because I carried the hill on #1 and absolutely killed it on holes like 12, 15, and 16.  As you remember, it has a BUNCH of short 4s.  3, 4, 6, 10, 11, 14.  Not to mention that the par 5s are also reachable.

Today?  Sheesh, everyone any good hits it further than I did then.  A college player could probably have a field day.  That said, it is in Minnesota and it gets pretty cold late in the golf season.  Enough of the par 3s play hard and a cold blustery day can do the trick.  #8 I remember as particularly challenging.

Nothing special, but an enjoyable place to play that was in good condition when I was at the U of M.

[Rick Shefchik]

The U. of M. course makes great use of its many trees, hills and small greens to defend itself. I wish I drove the ball straighter, because it does fairly beg to be dismantled if you put your tee shot in the right place. Nevertheless, I always enjoy the course -- and this year it's in very good shape.

[Jim Nugent]

I wonder how/if Bolstad has changed since 1980.  I don't remember much space to stretch it out.  

[Paul Payne]

Ryan,

I have played M. Dunes many times in the last few years. I think the design of the course is actually pretty good. There are some very fun holes and some really good blind shots and mounding.

I think my biggest complaint is the groundskeeping. My hunch is that they are always struggling to get by. They have been public, then private, then public again, and never seem to be able to keep up with the course.

The good side of this is that the fairways are usually firm and fast (if not a bit scraggly) the down side is that the greens and tee's are usually pretty beat up. They also have some real drainage problems on the holes near the river.

Overall however I still rank it up with some of my favorite publice in the metro area.

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