Upscale Golf Oriented Real Estate Developments

[erichunter]

Arlington, Tx is a dump - lived there in 1987-1990.

Marshall Ranch is near Lago Vista, on the north side of Lake Travis. Lago Vista was the origional "north side" golf community built in the 1960's and '70 with three good courses, and a gazillion retirement-type homes. After 40 years, they are still selling lots. Marshall Ranch golf course is nearby and it's nice, I've played it... hard to say whether the whole deal is financially viable. Most of the new golf/Mac-house developements (that are still solvent) are to the west of Austin, SOUTH of the lake - in Bee Cave, Spicewood, and further south near Driftwood. Many of the good recently built daily courses are to the east of Austin, though, and are heavily played.

Dan-

I was under the impression that Player's course was routed but never opened.  It isn't listed in any Texas golf directory that I have seen but I may have missed it.  My company looked at the real estate side of the deal recently.  Apparently one guy has taken ownership on most of the lakefront lots and the marina.  He was also planning on getting the course under contract as well.  The current owner bought out the previous group who were running some kind of scam and eventually went belly up.

Most of the developments, (ie Spanish Oaks), west of town are doing better now but still not to the expected level when they started in the late 90's.  

[John_Conley]

Has C&C ever done a housing develpment track b4?

Chechessee Creek
Cuscowilla

[Lou_Duran]

Quote from: danielfaleman on Today at 08:29:56pm
Arlington, Tx is a dump - lived there in 1987-1990.
 
Either this cat has never ventured out of McMansion City or he has some real perceptual limitiations (something about not being able to differentiate an orifice in his body from a hole in the ground).  

This so-called dump is the home of the Texas Rangers baseball team, future home of the Dallas Cowboys, home of Six Flaggs Over Texas, and for many years one of the fastest growing cities in the country.  It also has one of the best municipal golf courses anywhere.  Get real!
 

[Bill_McBride]

Has C&C ever done a housing develpment track b4?

Chechessee Creek
Cuscowilla

Cuscowilla is about as gentle a "housing development track" as you can find, with maybe 20 houses and/or golf cottages adjoining the golf holes.  The houses at Pebble Beach are much more obtrusive IMHO.   I really do love the entire situation at Cuscowilla.  If the weather weren't almost identical to Pensacola's (miserable summers), I might consider investing in one of those nice golf bungalows.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

C&C's new Colorado GC also has a housing component, although it is somewhat limited.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Arlington, Tx is a dump - lived there in 1987-1990.

Daniel,

In 1990, Arlington had the highest per capita income of any city in Texas, probably spurred by the large incomes of 20 or so mega millionares playing for the Rangers.  I bought my house there that year.  Sadly, it turned out to be the statistical high point, and tax revenues, income profile, etc. started dropping after that, despite the new ball park, as the wealthiest folks went further out.

No question it is suffering from some of the same problems that all inner suburbs go through - too many apartments, changing racial mix, aging infrastructure, newer business parks stealing large businesses, causing empty business parks, etc.

If you didn't like it in 1990, you wouldn't like it much better now.  That said, if I based my living decisions soley on stats, I would move.  Then when I get out and about and meet the school teachers, neighbors, leaders, etc. I find that they are all very nice people and highly competent.  So, rather than go to some new community that hasn't developed any problems, I opted to stay in a place that is trying to constantly rebuild itself.

[Lou_Duran]

Well said Jeff.  I've been here since 1978, and could have moved several times but didn't.  All in all, it has been a great place to raise a family, make a living, very affordable, and with enough entertainment of all types that if one gets bored, well, one is just plain boring.  It does have way too much retail for my taste, and it sure could use a good private golf club for serious players (one based on the original Great Southwest model sans the gender restriction would do well, don't you think?).  

[Jeff_Brauer]

Lou,

Riverside opened in 1983-4 as a supposedly more upscale private club than GSW and only sold a dozen memberships at $12,500 before going semi private and then fully public.  I wondered why Arlington couldn't support another club.  Ther is the low budge Rolling Hills, which I think is going to be sold, since they have a $34MIL offer for their land.  Maybe the demographics really aren't that good.

Nonetheless, I have always not wanted to go live in a developing new area miles from anywhere.  I live right between 360, I 30 and the new 161 extension.  When I want to go I can get on a highway fast. And Arlington is near the airport.  I wish they would have passed the Johnson Creek initiative and hope they develop the new downtown around the ballpark.

[Lou_Duran]

Jeff,

I must have known every one of those dozen members at Riverside.  BTW, this project failed for three main reasons.  #1, the Hunt family member who was the lead principal got into a messy divorce, and, as I recall, Riverside was at the heart of the property distribution battle.

#2, the original plans were much closer to a Dallas National model complete with a much larger clubhouse and member/ guest housing right on premise.  When Meridian Savings (mainly Gary Sibley) acquired it, there was no way it could finish the grandiose plans of the original developer started as both Sibley and his partner, Jimmy Wolf, were already fighting the Feds to keep their S&L open and stay out of jail.

#3, anyone who has lived in Arlington for any period of time had seen that the course was in the middle of the flood way, and most understood that water is not easily contained.  Of course, this proved out two years in a row when the finished course was plagued with back to back 100 year events, two or three times in the first year.  What a mess for American Golf who by then had acquired the property via a sealed bid from an FDIC contractor.

I've never wanted to live on a golf course for privacy reasons.  We are indeed fortunate to live where we do, well within a half an hour of just about everything but an ocean and cool weather.  Everything has a downside.

I was at the Walmart by the stadium recently.  The Cowboys site seems to be moving forward nicely.  That whole part of town is becoming quite scary.  Having been spending quite a bit of time south of Los Angeles this year, it reminds me of some of the areas there.  

[Kirk Gill]

C&C's new Colorado GC also has a housing component, although it is somewhat limited.

What they are doing at CGC is keeping the course as a "core" golf experience, and placing the housing away from the course itself. This may be what you're saying by "somewhat limited," but I wanted to throw my two cents in. Ultimately there are to be only around 150-some homesites in the development, if I remember correctly, although there may be some additional housing around a small lake being created for irrigation purposes (again, well away from the golf course itself).

There will be a par-three course which will wind amongst the homesites, but all I've seen of this is an early map.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Lou,

I had forgotten the details of why it was seen as risky to invest in that club, but it had that reputation from the get go.  While its a nice course, its location on a highway couldn't have made it seem like a premier, Dallas National type course.  I also recall that Hunt developed the land around, notably one office building and the fill to get that site raised came from the course area, turning a two year flood plain site into a twice a year flood plain site.