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Dan Moore

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Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: Date Set Sunday October 8th
« on: August 25, 2006, 02:37:19 PM »
Calling all MW GCAers.

Based on imput October 8th has been selected as the date for this event.  I have made 3 tee times for the morning and afternoon.  The morning times start at 8:39 and the afternoon times at 1:39.  Anyone interested in only playing 18 holes can play in the morning or afternoon.  Hopefully we can set up some 36 hole matches with Four Ball in the morning and Foursomes in the afternoon.  Non GCA friends welcome.  
 
Everyone will either select a partner or be paired with another player of comparable ability.  Pairings for the morning round will attempt to match teams of similar ability.  Afternoon pairings will be made based on morning results.  All matches will be played at scratch.  

Cost:  Green Fees are $21.50 per 18 holes (yes you read that right) and will be paid directly to the club on the day of the event.  Lunch and chilled Wisconsin beverages will be available in the clubhouse.  

The event will be held at a relatively unknown and benignly neglected Langford Moreau course that is located 1 mile north of the Illinois Wisconsin border in Salem, Wisconsin.  The course is called Spring Valley Country Club and was named Our Country Club when it opened in the 1920's.  

For those of you familiar with Lawsonia all of the characteristic Langford Moreau elements are present including fairway cross bunkers, several blind shots and large, elevated greens with significant undulation.  The course went out of play during WWII until 1959 so all of the bunkers are grassed in.  All of the par 3's are terrific (the 185 yd 17th features a green that drops 6 feet from back to front), the par 5 4th is excellent and several of the par 4s including the driveable 14th are also quite good.  The course is a par 70 at around 6,350 yds.  With 5 par 3's, 4 par 4's over 400 yds and several uphill holes the course plays longer than the yardage indicates.  

I recently met the owner who is in possession of the original plans for the course.  The owners father, John “Pick” Wagner was a member of Skokie Country Club and one of the top amateurs of his day who as an amateur qualified for the US Open in the 1950's.  He holds the Spring Valley course record of 59.  PGA and Senior Tour Player Fred Hawkins from nearby Antioch, Illinois was a regular at the course.  Hawkins finished second to Arnold Palmer in the 1958 Masters and 2nd in a playoff to Ben Hogan at the 1959 Colonial.  I will see if the owner will make a presentation on the course and its history during lunch.  

Here are some Spring Valley pictures to get you interested.

1930's Course Book with Hole Descriptions (course has since been lengthened)


First Tee


Par 5  Fourth 556 yd
View of Blind Second Shot Over Mounds


Par 5  Fourth
View of Green From Over Mounds


Par 3 Fifth 210 yd
Fifth Hole with Sixth Tee on Isthmus


Par 4 15th 425yd
View of Second Shot


Par 4 18th
Blind Drive (A little like the 2nd at Lawsonia)






« Last Edit: September 13, 2006, 03:06:31 PM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Phil McDade

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Re:FALL MW GCA Get Together
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2006, 03:00:34 PM »
Dan:

Count me in; I've been wanting to get down to Spring Valley this year and just haven't found the time. Let me know if you any help organizing.


ed_getka

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2006, 01:03:16 AM »
Dan,
  It looks interesting, but the date is 2 weeks too late for me. :-\ It should be a fun day. For those who haven't had the pleasure of golfing with Dan, he is the a chip off the Tom Huckaby block of consistent driving. Those two could stand in for the Iron Byron at the USGA.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2006, 01:06:37 AM by ed_getka »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Dan Moore

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2006, 10:54:42 AM »
Thanks Ed.

Phil,  so far it looks like just you and me.  Hopefully a few others will join in over the next few days. :D

Its interesting that though its somewhat benignly neglected in terms of maintenance,  Langford's original work is basically untouched.  I think people will be pleasently surprised by how good the architecture is on this course.  

p.s. Heading to Madison today to take my daughter back to college, I'll wave as we pass you by.   ;D
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

RJ_Daley

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2006, 11:08:20 AM »
Dan this looks good, and I would like to attend.  But, I have logistics problems getting there.  I will be in Madison Fri and Sat evenings, for 40 H.S. class reunion and a family wedding.  It will be a late night there on Sat, and we are staying overnight there.  But, I can't figure how I can get my wife back to G.B. and get my self down to Spring Valley and ultimately back to G.B.  She could drive home Sun, and maybe I could hitch a ride with Phil from Madison.  But, I'm stuck getting back to G.B.

If I can find someone coming back to G.B. from Madison to take my wife home from the wedding, I'll be able to make Spring Valley.  I can only work on this and get back to you...
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Dan Moore

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2006, 11:51:37 AM »
Dick,

Thanks.  I'm finding the October 1st date doesn't work for several people who want to partcipate.  Would Oct 8th or 22nd work better for you?  

How about others??
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Phil McDade

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2006, 03:28:20 PM »
Dan:

I could probably do Oct. 8, though it's not quite as open as Oct. 1. Oct. 22 looks certainly possible on my end, although it's getting a bit dicier with the weather, obviously.

Dick, I could certainly provide a ride to and from anywhere in the Madison area.


Evan Fleisher

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2006, 03:33:10 PM »
No guarantees (yet) from this Iowan, but I'd be pretty interested in an outing such as this...keep me posted on dates.
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 12.2. Have 24 & 21 year old girls and wife of 27 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Doug Siebert

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2006, 03:53:44 AM »
Sounds interesting but looks like I'd be looking at a 4 hour drive so the morning round would be right out.  I might consider it if the date works out, so keep me posted.

Oct 1 is a definite no-go because we've got OSU coming to town for a 7PM start on the 30th so there's no way I'm in any shape to play golf the next day even on my home course!  Look for me to be somewhere in the crowd when ESPN GameDay comes to town holding a beer, screaming unintelligibly and making the "we're #1" sign with my right finger (at least I think that's the requirement for being in the GameDay audience)
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Dan Moore

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2006, 10:07:22 AM »
Doug,

October 8th is being considered as an alternative.  A decision will be posted in a few days.  

I've had a few others express interest in only playing 18 and that shouldn't be a problem for anyone only wanting to play 18 in the morning or afternoon.  

It would also be easy to find relatively inexpensive accomodations nearby or in Lake Geneva which is only about 25 minutes away.  Let me know if you want me to price out something in the vicinity.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Dan Moore

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: Date Set October 8th
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2006, 12:13:49 PM »
Sunday October 8th has been selected as the date for this event.  So far one foursome has been filled.  Many others have expressed an interest so now is the time to get a partner and step up.  

Please refer to the first post for details and cost as I have modified the format slightly to accomodate those who have expressed an interest in playing only 18 holes.  

If anyone needs accomodations in the area let me know.  There are many possibilities in all cost brackets.  Out of towners may be inetrested to know this course is only about 60-75 minutes from Erin Hills in case you want to combine this event with a Saturday or Monday round at Erin Hills.  

Here is the par 3 3rd hole 135 yds.  One of many Langford original greens.


Here is what it would look like with the bunker restored.
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Eric_Terhorst

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: Date Set Sunday October 8th
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2006, 11:22:51 PM »
For my inaugural post on GCA I wanted to second Dan's motion that Spring Valley is a great place for an outing, and thank him for bringing the course to my attention.  Reading messages as a guest on the site a few weeks ago, I saw his original post, decided to check out the course and was surprised at every turn at how good it is.   When you take into account the modest greens fee, it's stunning.

You Langford and Lawsonia fans will not be disappointed!


Dan Moore

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: Date Set Sunday October 8th
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2006, 09:00:37 PM »
With a week to go until October 8th, I thought I'd bring this back up one more time.  I have enlisted a number of my Illinois and Wisconsin golf buddies and we now have 12 players confirmed.  We are playing Illinois against Wisconsin with Fourballs in the morning and Foursomes in the afternoon.  It is shaping up to be an entertaining day.  

I have room for few more golfers in case any more GCAers want to join us.  If you are interested post here or send me an email or IM.  
 
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Michael Kennedy

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: Date Set Sunday October 8th
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2006, 09:42:25 PM »
Dan,
If you have two more spots, I think I can fire up Shivas for a quick drive north...

Dan Moore

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: Date Set Sunday October 8th
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2006, 11:18:25 PM »
Michael I have two spots available.  

Let me know if you want them.  

"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Dan Moore

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: Date Set Sunday October 8th
« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2006, 06:23:27 PM »
Still have a few spots open.  
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Dan Moore

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: October 8th
« Reply #16 on: October 09, 2006, 11:12:40 PM »
Yesterday was a stunningly beautiful Fall day for this get-together which, rather than a GCA get together, morphed into a 12 player two team match between my Illinois and Wisconsin non-GCA golfing friends.  GCAer Phil Mcdade joined us as part of team Wisconsin and was responsible for bringing home Wisconsin's only point as Illinois won 5-1.  

However, the real winner was the course.  The quality of the design is evident throughout as subtle use is made of a number of fairly gentle slopes and a few small ravines and valleys.  Langford and Moreau complemented the natural features with many of their characteristic mounds and bunkers that define landing zones and approaches and which create blind shots on several holes.  Variety is also evident with a series of long, short and medium par 4s and one the better par 5s I've played this year.  The par 3s are all extremely strong with some of the best greens on the course.  

Yesterday the greens were playing close to ideal and were in very good condition after an abundance of rain.  Like Lawsonia, many of the greens are built into or on the sides of hills.    Compared to Lawsonia, however, I think these greens have more interest and significantly more internal contour and overall slope.  They also displayed a fun amount of speed in contrast to Lawsonia where in my recent visits the lack of speed was something of a problem.  The only drawback in this area is the fact that many of the greens appear to be much smaller than the original greenpads.

After playing Spring Valley 3 times this year I am convinced that with some maintenance tlc, expanded greens, restored bunkers and a few new tees to add some needed distance this course would be one of the best original Langford Moreau courses anywhere.  

Here are a few photos from yesterday.

The approach on the 452 yd 1st


The 211 yd 5th


Green Contours on the 411 yd 6th


The 371 yd 18th


















« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 12:04:44 AM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Evan Fleisher

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: Date Set Sunday October 8th
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2006, 11:55:26 PM »
Dan,

Thanks for sharing...sorry I missed the get-together, but I have been working like a dog getting the house ready to seel, and we busted it enough to have our first open house yesterday.

Now the fun really begins as we try to seel this beast and move East!
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 12.2. Have 24 & 21 year old girls and wife of 27 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

RJ_Daley

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: Date Set Sunday October 8th
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2006, 12:31:23 AM »
Dan, I also regret not being able to attend.  But, you photos really do suggest amazing possibilities for a hidden gem resto-recovery.  The fact that you are quite responsible for bringing this course up on the radar can only mean, you are now the defacto advocate to encourage the revival of what is obviously a worthy project to bring the glory back to this course.  

We see many courses where the bones have been worn down over the years by poor practices, and there really doesn't seem to be much sense in going for a restoration because so much is lost.  But, from everything evident here in photos, Spring Valley is different.  The bones are still obviously there.  A fellow would have to be blind not to see it straight away.  Your first photo screams for it... eliminate trees, recover bunkers, bring out greens edges and lost sections.

A pox on me for missing the spectacular autumn day.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Phil McDade

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: Date Set Sunday October 8th
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2006, 10:57:28 AM »
I'll just add a few cents to Dan's usual thoughtful analysis of this course.

I think the term "hidden gem" has been thrown around so much it's become something of a cliche, but it truly describes this place. A wonderful course, full of challenge and true architectural merit; as Dan remarked over beers afterward, it's the kind of place you're glad doesn't charge $50 a round, or it'd be more crowded (the lot of us paid $21.50 to play 36 holes -- it's the fall weekend all-day rate here).

Some thoughts:

-- The greens, in my view, are the real standouts here. Tougher to read and putt than Lawsonia, truly. Lawsonia's greens are well-known for their bold contours; at Salem, the contours are more subtle, and the course isn't afraid to put pins on the edges of the internal slopes. Much, much quicker than anytime I've ever played Lawsonia -- whether it's by luck or true knowledge of what they have, the folks who run Salem set up the greens as the course's true line of defense. Several greens just stood out as absolutely first-rate -- 6, 7 (eight-foot putt from above the hole, 12-foot putt coming back from below the hole -- I thought I'd barely tapped it); 9, 15, 17 and 18. Just playing these greens makes a trip here well worth the effort.

-- The course has a more intimate feel than Lawsonia, which has always impressed me as a "big" course, in part because of the sweeping views you get from the land there, and the lack of trees. It's not corridor golf at Salem, and I didn't feel that the trees diminished the play of the course. Oddly, the place where trees often came into play were on a few tee shots, where overhanging branches (for my game, anyway) forced you into teeing your ball on one side of the tee box. I'd encourage more tree-branch trimming here than an overall tree removal program of the sort Lawsonia has done.

-- The land here is flat in parts and wonderfully contoured in others; the most dramatic holes are the 7th, 8th, 9th and 18th, where Langford/Moreau utilized valleys to create blind shots and strong carries.

-- I've always thought Lawsonia has a very strong set of par 3s, but the 7th at Salem in my view could fit in there easily. 181 yards over a deep valley, with a grassy, severely sloped waste area left of the green that screams "don't go there," and a nearly diabolical green. I've never played Portrush's Calamity -- only seen pictures -- but it was the hole I thought of when I walked up to the tee for the first time. Truly a great hole.

-- In some ways, as Dan alluded to about the green pads, approach shots at Salem can be pretty exacting. The course comes with the traditional Langford/Moreau pushed-up greens, but because several of the greens are pretty small, the penalty for a miss can be severe, as you find yourself pitching onto those pushed-up greens and their contours. As is typical of a Langford/Moreau course, slight miss-hits into greens are often punished pretty severely. There are a lot of tough up-and-downs here (...Illinois GCAers will want to know that Dan made an awfully darn good up and down from above the hole at 18 to save his team's 1 up foursomes victory Sunday -- the equivalent of chipping down a sloped bathtub. The putt was conceded, it was that good of a chip.)

-- Course conditioning is generally good, though spotty in parts. The teeing areas were pretty chewed up, but the greens were in very good shape, as were the fairways. The rough was not long by any means (rather benign, in fact) and was consistent throughout the course (I spent a lot of time in it).

-- Several blind shots add to the allure of the course, and they come in all places -- tee shots (1 and 18, notably, but also subtlely at 2 and 12), blind 2nd shots, notably at the wonderful par 5 4th, and blind approaches, at the 8th e.g. if your drive is short or off-line. Langford/Moreau used both their signature mounds and the contours of the land to create a number of interesting blind shots.

-- The whole nature of the course is rather informal and blue-collar; it's one of the least-stuffy courses you'll encounter, from the house dog wandering around the putting green and clubhouse to the cigar-chomping maintenance guy/bartender who offered to open up the bar after we closed the course. (The bar serves Old Style in cans, for Chicago-area GCAers who fear missing the creature comforts of home by coming here to play.)

A fun course, worth the effort to seek out, and a stark contrast to the kind of golf you'd normally find at a low-range, daily-fee course.


Dan Moore

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: Date Set Sunday October 8th
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2006, 02:48:09 PM »
RJ,

The owner seems very comfortable with what he has and I doubt there is much interest in any major work.  He is aware of and proud of the course's heritage and given that there is some hope.


Phil,

Here are some shots of Calamity and SV 7.  

I played Calamity last year and I can definitely see how you made the connection.  They are both essentially a shot from the top of one hill (dune)  over a deep valley to the top of another hill (dune) with a deadly drop off on one side.

However, Calamity plays 210, 60 or so yards longer than we played 7 on Sunday making Calamity and even more testing shot.  Add to that an incomparable setting atop the dunes, a stiff seaside breeze, the deep dunes grasses and some pretty sophisticated contours on and around the green (I found Bobby Locke's hollow on the left, a popular spot when you guard against the drop off on the right) and you have what makes Calamity a world class par 3.   Still SV 7 is pretty darn good and even better when you play it from the 181 tee 30 yds farther back than we did.

Its an interesting observation and one I had not considered.  Given that 14, the 285 yd par 4 is similar in concept to the Sahara hole at NGLA it certainly raises some interesting questions.  

Calamity


Spring Valley 7 (a mirror image)


Looking Back


« Last Edit: October 10, 2006, 02:49:23 PM by Dan Moore »
"Is there any other game which produces in the human mind such enviable insanity."  Bernard Darwin

Will E

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Re:Fall Midwest GCA Get Together: Date Set Sunday October 8th
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2006, 03:51:55 PM »
Wow.

Langford deserves much more attention, I can not think of many courses that are more enjoyable to play than the ones that he helped to create. I would hope that the attention given to Lawsonia and Skokie would inspire other courses to join in restoring this excellent work.

Maybe West Bend, Ozaukee, and Spring Valley can get a bulk rate.

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