Doak "down-under" eclectic 18 (pictures)

[Philip Gawith]

Since  it is August and quite slow, and I am one of the relatively small group of people fortunate enough to have played all three of TD's courses down-under, I thought it might be amusing to compile an eclectic.

The original idea was a fiercely argued case, based purely on merits. The reality has turned out somewhat different. Eight months on from my trip, I can't remember all the holes well enough to pull that off, so what you have here instead is a whimsical mix of the holes I liked the most, rated the most, remember the most, and had a half-decent picture - and a few fillers where nothing stood out that strongly in the memory.

It turns out that I have chosen eight holes from SAB and five each from the others, only two par fives, five one-shotters - including three in a row - and it all adds up to a par 69. No prizes for balance, but I would happily play this course.

Maybe someone else will try to produce a fully qualitative eclectic.



1st at St Andrews Beach - par 5. I think Kidnappers first hole is also a good one, but this sticks more in the memory.



2nd at SAB - uphill, dog leg left par four.



3rd at SAB - I know some people think the drive is featureless, but I think this approach and green complex make the hole memorable.



The 4th at Barnbougle Dunes - this is a view of the green from the right. An excellent driveable par four, with lots of options to tuck the flag round the corner.



The 5th at SAB. This is one of the holes where I struggled a bit - lacked a good pic of the short hole at BD, and similarly with the two-shotter at Cape Kidnappers. Not at all sure this is the best, though I liked the semi-blind green (if I recall right).



The short sixth at Cape Kidnappers. I also think the short 6th at SAB is a great hole, and BD 6th is also a good hole.



The wonderful short 7th at BD. I think the 7th at CK is also a great hole.



Looking back at par three 8th at CK - I like the picture as much as anything.



The 9th at SAB.



The 10th at SAB.



11th at SAB - bit of a filler.



12th at CK - playing to the end of the earth. BD also has a great short par four, but I think this wins on memorability grounds.



The 13th at BD - Sitwell Park - with its dramatic green.



14th at SAB - a nice short two-shotter.



Another good, short two-shotter, this time at BD.



Par five 16th hole at CK, follows its more famous sister "Pirate's Plank". Partly a filler, but I like the look - CK is mostly photographed in relation to the sea, but some of the mountain views are also quite dramatic.



Heading home - the 17th at BD.



A view from behind the 18th at CK - narrowly pips the view from the tee at SAB.

[TaylorA]

Thanks for the fantastic pictures Philip. It might be unbalanced as you say, but worth every penny to play!

[Andrew Thomson]

Having only played CK and SAB, its looks a good mix.

I'd include the 14th from CK ahead of 14 SAB, and give the 6th at SAB a run ahead of 6 at CK.

other than that, I like it.  I'll like it even more when I've actually made my way to BD!

[Tim Pitner]

Terrific photos, Philip.  I'd love to play the TD Down Under Hat Trick--someday.  

I'm curious why St. Andrews Beach seems to be regarded as the lesser of the three (SAB looks awfully good to me).  I realize the location is not as dramatic as BD and CK.  Are there other reasons?  Even Tom Doak seems to acknowledge it has shortcomings, but I don't think I've ever seen them summarized succinctly.  Can someone help me here?  Also, what's the word on the second course at St. Andrews Beach?

[Jim Colton]

Looks amazing!  Thanks for the pics.  My in-laws are going to Australia and New Zealand next year and I've been in their ear about these must plays (and potentially bringing me along)

[Jason Topp]

Phillip - thanks for the pictures.  

8 holes - St. Andrews Beach
6 holes for the other two.


Does this reflect how you would rank the three courses?

[Philip Gawith]

Tim - obviously Mr Doak has to be somewhat discreet in how he talks about his various children, so as not to cause public offence, not least with owners! But I don't think you are right to assume that SAB is the poor relation of the three, either in his eyes, or those who have seen all the courses. Maybe he will chime in.

As you point out, the scenery is less dramatic. That is one big factor. Another is that it is private, so fewer have seen it. BD also has the novelty that it is, sort of, a links, CK has the sex appeal of Julian Robertson as owner, etc. SAB lacks any of these big selling points.

I hope Mark Ferguson and others will speak up - as I recall, the SAB thread after the GCA boys played there six months ago degenerated into a savage 14 page fist fight, so I am sure they will not be short of things to say.

Jason - not really. As I said, it was a whimsical selection. They are very different courses, making them not so easy to compare. I think I would be very happy to be a member at SAB who could make occasional trips to CK and BD. Playing all your golf at CK might feel a bit like eating dessert for all your meals. It feels like a treat course rather than a members course. The feel of BD makes it feel - I think you will agree - a bit like a holiday course. But I am avoiding the question.....

Any plans for New Years Day?

[Jason Topp]

Any plans for New Years Day?

I'm guessing I will be in the Midwest or Eastern US.  It very well could be about 120 degrees cooler than this year.  I'm sure the cuisine will not be as nice.  

[PThomas]

great stuff Philip, thanks!

my 25th anniversary is in 7 years....Australia and NZ might be the target destination, and after seeing these pics I hope it is!

[Tim Pitner]

Tim - obviously Mr Doak has to be somewhat discreet in how he talks about his various children, so as not to cause public offence, not least with owners! But I don't think you are right to assume that SAB is the poor relation of the three, either in his eyes, or those who have seen all the courses. Maybe he will chime in.

Philip,

You may be right--I don't want to put words in Tom Doak's mouth.  I do remember, though, that Tom was commenting on some rankings of Australian courses that had Barnbougle very high--top 2 or 3, I believe--and had SAB much lower.  I think he said that those rankings were more or less accurate.  Perhaps he was being deferential to some Sand Belt classics.  In any event, I was somewhat surprised that the consensus seemed to be that SAB was outside the top 15 (or so) in Australia.  

I vividly recall the SAB thread--one of the most entertaining, though sometimes highly personal, threads I've read.  So many details were discussed that I don't remember many opinions of SAB in general.

[Philip Gawith]

That's long-term planning Paul! But don't go just for the modern - you must also sample the long list of classics! I think Mr Getka is fashioning a trip down there sometime fairly soon, so keep an eye out for his update.

[PThomas]

That's long-term planning Paul! But don't go just for the modern - you must also sample the long list of classics! I think Mr Getka is fashioning a trip down there sometime fairly soon, so keep an eye out for his update.

wise counsel Philip!

and I don't think my wife needs convincing, but just in case 7 years should be  enough  

[Jay Flemma]

What a great shot of 12 at Kidnappers!  That's just gorgeous.

[Scott Coan]

Phil, great exercise indeed!  BB and CK two of the most spectacular courses anywhere.  STA much more subtle and has really grown on me.  It also gets points for being much more forgiving as I did not lose a single ball there.

Here's my take:

1  STA par 5, could go with CK but need a front 9 par 5
2  STA par 4 short
3  BB par 4 med, beats STA as while it has tremendous green, the tee shot is crap
4  BB par 4 short
5  CK par 4 med, centerline bunker and horizon green beat out STA  
6  CK par 3 long
7  BB par 3 short
8  BB par 4 killer long, separates the men from the boys
9  STA par 4 med, with great green

10  STA par 4 med
11  BB par 5, beats out CK/STA par 3’s
12  CK par 4 med
13  BB par 3 long
14  CK par 4 short, road hole bunker - only real short 4 on CK
15  CK par 5 killer long, just gotta have it
16  STA par 3 med, worst selection of the bunch
     (the par 4 15th at BB would be a great substitute)   
17  CK par 4 killer long
18  STA par 4 med, fantastic green

35/36 par 71

6 holes STA
6 holes BB
6 holes CK

[Tom_Doak]

Philip:

Thanks for showing off all those pictures, and particularly for including so much of St. Andrews Beach which is a favorite of mine.

Tim:

I think St. Andrews Beach is one of the best courses I've built, partly because it is the "most minimalist" of them all ... other than building greens and bunkers, we spent about three days moving earth in two fairways and that was it.

When we were working on all three, I was really excited how different they all were, but I thought of them in the same class.  But St. Andrews Beach is NOT one of the 50 most spectacular courses in the world, and the other two sites certainly were, and there you have it.  I would like to say St. Andrews Beach is underrated, but 9th in Australia is really a pretty high ranking for a brand new course, and I think it may have a chance to move up a couple of places in time.

I sure wish I had the course in my backyard ... of all that we have built I think it might be the most fun to play on an everyday basis.

[kwl]

very nice work: architecture and photographic.

i must say that looking at SAB i thought of talking stick north (then i noticed TD's description of little earth moving...confirmation). the great skyline green photo made me think of the great work of graham marsh and mark amundson at sutton bay (as did the feeling of peace and quiet eminating from the photo).

thank you. thank you very much.

[Dan Herrmann]

Looks like I have a new spot for my golf trip of a lifetime.  Thanks for the great pictures!

[Tim Pitner]

Tom D,

Thanks for your comments.  No. 9 in Australia is a high compliment; I thought I saw a discussion of some rankings that had SAB more in the 15-20 range, but I could be wrong.  

Anyway, I asked the question why SAB might be regarded as the lesser of the three precisely because it looked to me like it would be great "fun to play on a everyday basis."  It's nice to know my eye isn't far off.  

[Philip Gawith]

Scott - thanks for your list. A braver attempt to rate the holes. When I looked where we differed I was definitely influenced in some cases by lacking a good picture or recall of certain holes. I was also reminded that I find par 5's mo difficult to analyse than shorter holes because they can be more difficult to recall visually (the full hole).

Here, anyway, are photos of the nine holes where you chose differently from me:



The 3rd at Barnbougle. The line off the tee is the big bunker on the left. You can just about see the pronounced shelf in the fairway which makes it effectively two tier.



The skyline green at the 5th at CK. I struggled to get a good photo of this hole off the tee because the drive is semi-blind I think...



The approach to the 8th at Barnbougle. I agree -  a very tough hole, with a two level fairway and then a brute of a second, no matter which level you find. My ball twice snagged on the slope between the top and bottom tiers - not sure I thought that was necessary!



The tee shot on the par 5 11th at BD. Par 5's are difficult to photograph - the first at SAB, and the 16th at CK, are exceptions, where you can see the full hole.



The short two-shotter 14th at CK - a nice hole, I agree.



The famous 15th at CK - again, a very difficult hole to photograph from the ground (looks wonderful from the air) because it is so flat, as this picture shows.



Extra pic - Your's truly exiting a bunker on the left of the 15th. This pic does give you a feel for the scenery.



The long, downhill redan-style 16th at SAB. When I played this the wind was howling left to right and it was very difficult not to leave the ball out to the right. A par 3.5 I would say....



The skyline 17th green at CK.



The tee-shot on the 18th at SAB.

[Andrew Thomson]

In any event, I was somewhat surprised that the consensus seemed to be that SAB was outside the top 15 (or so) in Australia.  

It's inside the Top 10.  It will move from year to year, but should never not be a single figure ranking unless there are other exceptional new entries.

[Mark_F]

Many thanks Philip for pointing me in the direction of this thread.  A fascinating time you must have had compiling your list. I'd like to see you compile an electic heathland versus sandbelt thread next, please...

As to the queries by one or two of you as to why St Andrews Beach is a little less thought of, Tom pretty much said it, but I would also add that Barnbougle has a romanticism about it, from the whole story behind the project, as well as the journey there, and it being a public course,that will always guarantee a fond place in people's hearts.

Not to mention the fact that one Michael Clayton, Esquire, is a co-designer of Barnbougle, and that gets a lot of brownie points from his many acolytes down under.

The Gunnamatta course is also pretty subtle - and according to one or two unenlightened souls, several holes are borderline ridiculous. Of course, it would help these poor creatures if they actually opened their eyes on the golf course, but who am I to judge whether people wish to go through life in such ignorance?

Not sure about CK, but Gunnamatta is still relatively incomplete - there is a reasonable amount of revegetation work to be done still, not to mention some already existing that could do with a savage trim...

[Ted Kramer]

I love the look of #12 and #17 CK.
Great pics, thanks for sharing!

-Ted

[ed_getka]

Philip,
   Thanks for the great photos. April can not come soon enough! I look forward to seeing this trifecta, along with many other courses the local gents have been kind enough to recommend.

[Chris Kane]

Not to mention the fact that one Michael Clayton, Esquire, is a co-designer of Barnbougle, and that gets a lot of brownie points from his many acolytes down under.

Mark, Clayton's "acolytes" would also be aware that he was a co-designer at St Andrews Beach, which blows that theory out of the water.

St Andrews Beach doesn't get the accolades of Barnbougle because it isn't as good, simple as that.  That said, its clearly top 10 in Australia.

[Mark_F]

Ahh Chris, but Mike isn't acknowledged as a co-designer, is he?

A positively irksome matter, at least it has been to you in several conversations, I recall. And since you and Brian sleep together, I'm guessing it's irksome for him too. Can you give him a nudge and ask?

As to whether St Andrews Beach is as good, that's a simple matter of opinion.  None of Tom's Renaissance Cuppers of two years ago thought CK was as good as either Barnbougle or St Andrews, and look at it now.

Location, as well as the fact that Barnbougle is public, are at least equal factors as the quality of the course as to why Barnbougle receives the plaudits and publicity.

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