The Best Superintendent job in Golf

[John_Cullum]

Dr. Childs jokingly admonishes Jeff Lewis to keep away from Scott Ramsay. That got me to thinking Ramsay may have the top super job in all of golf. He doesn't have to deal with keeping members happy. He doesn't have to keep a corporate mindset or some snotty developer or  egomaniacal owner happy. He keeps one of the great courses in the world, and they probably don't fight him too much on his budget requests. The pay is likely competitive.

Does Ramsay have the top job.

And who does he answer to, a board of trustees?

[Phil_the_Author]

John, I can't speak to Ramsay's position, but I can't imagine a better situation than the one that Craig Currier has at Bethpage.

There are NO committees of any kind, both Dave catalano & Bernadette Castro trust him completely, and he works well with the USGA and others in preparing the course(s) for tournament play.

If he suggests something, it is done, and he has an inherent humility that guards abainst ego.

[Pat Jones]

John:

Great topic, but please define "best."

Most money?

Most freedom?

Most job security?

Best piece of land to work with?

Best owner relationship?

Most opportunity to consult/grow outside the course?

The best superintendent job in golf is the one that makes the person who has it happiest.  I'll bet you could find 500 superintendents who would lay claim to the title based on their own criteria.

Love to hear some superintendents chime in about this...

PJ

[Mike_Sweeney]

He doesn't have to deal with keeping members happy. He doesn't have to keep a corporate mindset or some snotty developer or  egomaniacal owner happy. He keeps one of the great courses in the world, and they probably don't fight him too much on his budget requests. The pay is likely competitive.

John,

What planet on you on? Not only does he have to answer to members, he also has to answer to probably 100+ tenured academic professors who are members. Think of 100 Dr. Geoffrey Childs! If Yale University, which seems to breed President's of the United States is not a "egomaniacal owner" then what is?

They don't fight him on the budget???!!! There is a reason why Yale has a couple billion dollar budget. My last trip to Yale, Scott was borrowing the copy machine in the pro shop as I walked in, and he made reference to the "IT deparment", which of course is himself. The tree removal was done on a shoe string budget because Scott is a smart guy and figured out a way to sell the trees and get it done.

Let's not confuse motivation, smarts and ingenuity with some sort of perfect job. I hope Scott wins Super of the Year, he deserves it, and I hope his kids get into Yale so that he will stay a few years for the free tuition.

[John_Cullum]

Mike

But I would surmise Yale's "members" are not members in the conventional sense. They don't own any equity or have any say in the operations do they? No offense, but isn't membership at Yale just an all the golf you can play for one price kind of membership, like being a member at a muni?

Maybe I am wrong and don't understand the business model at Yale, if that it is the case, it's rather fascinating that a University Club would operate that way. Who actually manages the course.

I am not surprised to hear they fight him on the budget though.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Mike

But I would surmise Yale's "members" are not members in the conventional sense. They don't own any equity or have any say in the operations do they? No offense, but isn't membership at Yale just an all the golf you can play for one price kind of membership, like being a member at a muni?


John,

What Pine Valley, National, Merion or Mountain Lake (to compare another place that I belong to where I have zero input along with 5 or 6 others here) member owns equity and has any real say other than a select few? The answer is none and maybe 4-6 people max.

Maybe I am wrong and don't understand the business model at Yale, if that it is the case, it's rather fascinating that a University Club would operate that way. Who actually manages the course.

You are wrong and don't understand the business model. The Athletic Department is in charge of Yale Golf Course same as the Yale Bowl, Yacht Club, Equestrian Center.....  http://yalebulldogs.cstv.com/facilities/yale-facilities.html
I have said it before and I will say it again, Yale University has thousands of priorities above Yale Golf Course, as they should. Thankfully, they finally found the perfect guy for the job of being the Super, but that does not make it a perfect job.

[Wayne_Kozun]

Isn't the best superindent job to be "Keeper of the Green" at St Andrews where your predecessors include Old Tom and Allan Robertson.

Either that or the job at Bushwood.

[John_Cullum]

Mike,

It still sounds like a pretty good situation, except for the tight budget because those pointy heads don't value the golf course.

Phil Young might have put his finger on it. Working for the State parks is a ticket to an almost unlimited off the radar screen budget, with lots of opportunity for graft. All that and the Black course is pretty well up there.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Mike,

It still sounds like a pretty good situation, except for the tight budget because those pointy heads don't value the golf course.

John,

Like many disagreements on GCA, we are probably saying the same thing differently.

I guess my main point is that Scott put himself in the position of being in a "pretty good situation". It was not that way when he arrived.

[Scott Stearns]

Craig Currier at Bethpage has a good job, but not the best in the business.

While it is true that Currier is allowed a great deal of autonomy, largely because Dave Catalano trusts and tries to protect him, he has anything other than an unlimited budget, and has 25,000 rounds a year on the Black alone.

Why wouldn't it be great to be the super at Augusta?  Green Committee of one, unlimited budget, 7 months of play totalling what, 5,000 rounds?, and 5 months to make constant changes to the course--constant challenges, bids away whenever one wants one, but since they change supers there so rarely, it seems the guy is happy.

[John_Cullum]

The problem at Augusta Nat is the super scrutiny. If a weed sprouts, it is likely you'll hit the highway. It seems not even the members feel comfortable at Augusta Nat, I can't imagine being employed there. Of course that could change under Billy Payne's reign.

[Dave_Wilber]

Guys...from a guy who visits and deals with a couple hundred supers and head greenkeepers a year I have to tell you...and I know how much you guys like ratings and lists and stuff like that, so I'm sorry to bust bubbles.

There is no Best Job. There are a ton of great jobs, defined in ways not many would ever figure how to evaluate. There are also a ton of rotten jobs, some of them at high level places talked about here. And it's just so sad to me that supers at places where life "should" be good, close the door to their offices, put their feet on the desk and start to tell me the horror stories of their lives at their particular club. And these aren't weak people. If I could write my book about that sort of thing...it wouldn't rival Doak's Confidential Guide, but it might drop a few jaws.

[Geoffrey Childs]

Dr. Childs jokingly admonishes Jeff Lewis to keep away from Scott Ramsay.

Who says I was joking    

[Adam Clayman]

Corey Crandall- West Wind Golf Course Ogallala Nebraska Superintendent/Owner

His Dad cuts the greens, his wife runs the show and his beer girl looks like Tiger's wife.

This question should be turned around to quantify the worst job, as Dave Wilber suggests.

It would drop jaws but open minds as to how some people inexusably do not respect people by treating them poorly.

[ChasLawler]

What do the supers at clubs like Sand Hills do during the off-season?

I worked a for a couple of summers on the grounds crew at Teton Pines in Jackson Hole, and the super there pretty much had the winter off to do as he pleased. I always thought that was a pretty sweet deal, although I have no idea how much money he made.

[Mike Nuzzo]

I'm in the Wilbur camp.  The same probably goes for design projects...

I'm posting because I'm calling Don Mahaffey out.
He said he almost posted to this thread the other night.
I'm not sure what he was going to post, I'd like to read it however.

Don is doing a great job.
As Wilbur alludes to, there are both positive and negative aspects to this project.  Right now we might catch him on a high.  Don is very creative, especially so when in a positive frame of mind.

Of many supers I've met Terry Bonar (Canterbury) stands out as someone secure in his position, and happy at his work.

Cheers

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I would think Augusta National would be a job of all jobs. It has good year round weather but 6 months of play with an unlimited budget. The community is affordable for the Sup and staff. I would think Cypress Point and Seminole would be in that elite club as well. There are special beautiful places with job specific benefits which we would not know for at least 50 other jobs in America. Cypress and Seminole fall a bit short on the affordability part. As to the blade of grass at augusta. They have the staff and budget to make sure that does not happen.

[jg7236]

I am thinking a Super who works somewhere like Colorado who only has to maintain a golf course for about 3-4 months because the rest of the year the course is covered in snow.  I think this would be a great gig.  In the winters come in early get some paper work done and have breakfast and lunch at the club and then home.  I am sure it isn't exactly like this, I know I am exaggerating , but I think at a great club and with great pay this would be one of the great Super jobs to have.

[Steve Okula]

I think the greatest misconception among golfers is that the better the course is to play, then the better it must be to work at. They have nothing to do with one another. A great golf course, with impeccable credentials, could be either a dream job or a nightmare, or anywhere in between.

As mentioned above, the value of the job depends entirely on the aspirations of the superintendent. I wouldn't trade my job for 99% of the others out there. I am at a private club, fairly low profile, with light play, adequate if not great resources, no ambitions of hosting professional events, minimal club politics and interference from members, and located in a fascinating place, just outside of Paris, France. Suits me, but maybe not for everyone.

Those of us with families of course need to consider things like schools and medical care as well, which stack up quite well here, I dare say better than anyplace we could afford on a super's salary in the U.S.

Not least to a family man, is a degree of job security inherent in the French system. They can't fire me without a frickin' good reason, or they'll have to keep paying me anyway. Added to family benefits, I work about 10 hours per week less than the average American super, according to the latest surveys out of the U.S. that I've read.

To illustrate my point, a year or two ago, the super job at Sunningdale was advertised, (which generated a thread on this DG). Even though I had an inside contact there, I never even considered applying, all due respect to an outstanding golf course. First concern was that my children wouldn't have as rounded an education in Surrey as they get here, not to mention the British NHS. The pay advertised was less than I'm making on a "no-name" course, and besides, Surrey is even more dear than Paris, plus my informant briefed me on the political intrigue influencing the operations there.

No thanks. I don't know who got the job, but I wish him all the success in the world.

As fascinating as some places are to play and talk about, that does not at all equate into working conditions and livelihood.

[RJ_Daley]

While I haven't had the pleasure to met this gent, nor do I know for sure what his job is actually like... I do remember reading a story (perhaps in Golfdom - can't remember) and I thought here is a man that loves his job, loves his environment, loves his down time, and pretty much oversees a piece of turf that most of the purists on here see as ideal, and non irrigated. That has to cut down on plenty of headaches in maintenance right there!  

Donnie Beck, Fisher's Island!  

[Don_Mahaffey]

Mr. Nuzzo is indeed correct as I almost posted to this thread last evening. But, as I was writing my response to the question I began to realize that there is no way that anyone could claim to have the best job in any field. Like Steve O. and Dave Wilber noted so well, appearances can indeed be deceiving. There are probably a lot of supers out there who feel like they have it pretty darn well, and a few more than a lot who wished they had it better. For me, I think I've got it pretty darn good.
I get to participate in the construction of a golf course that I feel will be very out of the ordinary. It's unlike anything I've seen built, and thanks to Mike, I get to have a lot of input in design decisions. I get to shape a little, I will, more than likely, build most if not all the bunkers. I've designed the maintenance facility and all equipment decisions are mine. Mike and I designed the irrigation system, and we personally oversee every activity involved in creating the golf course.
All in all, it's a pretty nice deal. Throw in a good living, all the private hunting and fishing grounds one could ever want and I think I've got it pretty nice.
It's the client’s golf course, but he puts his trust in Mike and me to build and maintain something special.
It's a Mike Nuzzo design and his contributions will always far out weigh anything I've contributed.
But, it's my baby. And more then that, the one thing I’ve always wanted is to care for a course that inspires me. Now, I’ve got that. That’s why I have the best super job in golf.

[Steve Curry]

Dave Wilbur,

How have you been?

Don,

Sounds like a fantastic situation.  Does having extensive resources make it more fun?

Best,
Steve

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Don, you are obviously correct.This discussion is on the most superficial basis. One mans best job ever is anothers living hell. There are points to make about working at a piece of golf's current treasure, Bandon Dunes, being the perfect job, but one has to like the year round life there in a very remote area.

[Sean Remington (SBR)]

  Don and Tiger, well said. I can only add the following quote that I have on my bulliten board.

   "You will recognize your own path when you come upon it, because you will suddenly have all the energy and imagination you will ever need..."
               - Jerry Gillies

Not sure who Jerry is but his quote makes perfect sence to me and applies to many things in life. Maybe the key and good fortune comes in when the path is a long and interesting one. I suppose it's a nice bounus if the path leads you somewhere that you are happy to be when you get there.

[Steve Curry]

Sean,

Great quote and very true.


Steve