Tobacco Road

[Gary Daughters]

I'm contemplating a trip to Tobacco Road early next month and would appreciate anyone's input on how to maximize the experience.

Should/can the course be walked?

Is playing 36 manageable/enjoyable?

What is the drive time from Charlotte?

And .. before I go here this is NOT a feeler for access.. are there other courses (public/non-Pinehurst) within striking range that would be worthy of a visit.

Thanks in advance.

[Wayne_Kozun]

I'm contemplating a trip to Tobacco Road early next month and would appreciate anyone's input on how to maximize the experience.

Should/can the course be walked?

Is playing 36 manageable/enjoyable?

What is the drive time from Charlotte?

And .. before I go here this is NOT a feeler for access.. are there other courses (public/non-Pinehurst) within striking range that would be worthy of a visit.

I walked it as part of last year's Dixie Cup and I wouldn't have minded playing a second 18, if I had the chance.  Not sure about the driving time to Charlotte.

[APBernstein]

I am not exactly sure by what you mean by non-Pinehurst: non-Pinehurst Resort or non-Pinehurst Village?

If you mean non-Resort, Pine Needles and Mid-Pines are no-brainers and have been reviewed ad-nauseum on this site.  Southern Pines Elks Club is also a great track at a very reasonable price.

[David_Madison]

Figure on about a three hour drive. The course is walkable, althougth I've never walked it - - I think there is some doubling back and a few long hikes from green to tee. Thirty-six holes is enjoyable, but 54 would be even better. As for other courses to see, if you are going in the opposite direction from Pinehurst, both Duke and Finley (UNC's course) are worth playing, and both are easy drives from TR.

[Ryan Farrow]

You are 3 hours away and have not played Tobacco Road !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gary Daughters]

Ryan..

I'm 5+ hrs from Charlotte.

[Brian Joines]

try and fly into Raleigh/Durham if you are indeed flying. My dad and I flew in to Raleigh in the early afternoon and squeezed in 18 holes that evening (in mid-March)

[Jay Flemma]

Yes, its walkable...pretty reasonable walk too...should be three to four hrs from caledonia...maybe a bit less...

[A.G._Crockett]

Gary,
The drive time from Charlotte to Tobacco Rd. shouldn't be more than 2 hrs. or so.  

I'd second the recommendation for Southern Pines.  Duke and UNC would be enjoyable, but are by no means must-see golf courses.  Of the two, I believe I'd go to Chapel Hill; better rates, and probably better conditioned.  The courses themselves are a toss-up.

One other possibility would be to hit Asheboro on one end or the other of the trip from Charlotte to Sanford and play Tot Hill Farm, since you are already doing one Strantz course.  It wouldn't add much drive time, and would make for a very interesting contrast.

[cary lichtenstein]

Gary:

I would recommend that you play Tobacco Road AFTER you play Tot Hill Farm. We did it that way and I think that is the way to go.

2 very differnt courses, but you will enjoy Tobacco Road that much more as playing Tot Hill Farm, you start getting into Mike Strantz's mindset and then the next day rockets go off.

Cary

[Jay Flemma]

SEan, I walked it in 90 degrees on the 4thy of July...its not an easy walk, but its no mountain course either.

[Gary Daughters]

Guys,

Thanks much for taking the time.  The Tot Hill idea, in particular, sounds really neat.

Gary

[Mike Hendren]

Gary,

I drove over from Charlotte last month.   The drive is sneaky slow and I would allocate 3.5 hours from the airport - there's no short-cut.  

Blasphemy, I know, but Tobacco Road is a very good cartball golf course.  

IMHO, Tobacco Road and Mid-Pines cover a broad range of the golf course architecture spectrum.  Both are delightful and insightful.

Also, I believe the aforementioned Southern Pines is closed for re-grassing.

Mike

[Kyle Henderson]

I second the Tot Hill Farm idea. You might also try The Preserve at Jordan Lake some time when you're out that way. The Heritage north of Raleigh is another a solid track.

[APBernstein]

If you knew you would eventually play all the courses recommended, then yes, playing Tot Hill Farm and then Tobacco Road isn't that bad of an idea.  But if you're 5+ from Charlotte, which is about 2+ from Pinehurst, there doesn't seem to be much guarantee that you will play every course.

If that is the case, no one will suggest playing Tot Hill Farm over Mid Pines or Pine Needles.  To be honest, you need to wear Rec-Specs at Tot Hill Farm on the off chance that a ball riccochets off the thousands of rocks/boulders back towards your face.

I loved Tobacco Road and generally hated Tot Hill Farm.  There are some sites that just don't deserve a golf course, let alone one from a talented architect (Strantz).  Tot Hill is one of those sites.

[Kyle Henderson]

If you knew you would eventually play all the courses recommended, then yes, playing Tot Hill Farm and then Tobacco Road isn't that bad of an idea.  But if you're 5+ from Charlotte, which is about 2+ from Pinehurst, there doesn't seem to be much guarantee that you will play every course.

If that is the case, no one will suggest playing Tot Hill Farm over Mid Pines or Pine Needles.  To be honest, you need to wear Rec-Specs at Tot Hill Farm on the off chance that a ball riccochets off the thousands of rocks/boulders back towards your face.

I loved Tobacco Road and generally hated Tot Hill Farm.  There are some sites that just don't deserve a golf course, let alone one from a talented architect (Strantz).  Tot Hill is one of those sites.

Personally, I thought the site at Tot Hill Farm offered Strantz the opportunity to create some truly unique green complexes, which he did -- boulders and all. It is definitely not a course for everybody, as can be said for Tobacco Road, and I would say that it does have a few holes that are on the weak side for a Strantz course, but considering the cheap green fees (a fraction of that at Pine Needles) and the variety of shotmaking requirements, I think its one of the best deals out there.

Overall, I definitely think Tobacco is the better track, but I also believe that most Strantz fans would rate Tot Hill in high regards.

[APBernstein]

Overall, I definitely think Tobacco is the better track, but I also believe that most Strantz fans would rate Tot Hill in high regards.

I would consider myself a Strantz fan, though stopping well short of calling myself a fanatic.  Of the 7 Strantz courses I have played, I would rate Tot Hill Farm last by a considerable distance.  I believe the uniqueness of the course -- no one could call it unoriginal -- is pretty well trumped by the absurdness of the course as a whole, of which the rocks play a large role.

Remember, the discussion of Tot Hill is in the context of choosing a place to play alongside Tobacco Road, of which Mid Pines is a candidate.  I would choose Mid Pines (at the price) 11 times out of 10 over Tot Hil Farm.

[Gary Daughters]

I checked out the Tot Hill Farm website, and there certainly is lots of rock.  Golf meets pinball?

[cary lichtenstein]

Gary:

I suggest you follow my suggestion of playing Tot Hill Farm.

It's like going to a movie with 2 stars and leaving quite, quite happy.

The uniqueness of the place is what it is all about, Strantz pushing the envelope. You will not be dissappointed.

Cary

[A.G._Crockett]

Andrew,
Agreed that Tot Hill is a tough site, clearly inferior to any of the other sites that Strantz worked on.  That said, it is only a bad course in relation to those others (most especially the very nearby Tobacco Road), and a very, very creative use of a mediocre piece of ground.  I only played it once, but I don't remember a single GOOD shot that I hit hitting a boulder!  Even the pile of boulders on #10 isn't in play if you hit a decent shot either over or to the left of the pile.  It's just more of Strantz playing with the golfer's mind as they stand on the tee.

I would wholeheartedly agree that Tot Hill is a distant second to Mid Pines, but that is a compliment to Mid Pines rather than a knock on Tot Hill.  At the price, I think Tot Hill is worth the trip.

[APBernstein]

A.G.,

Maybe I don't dislike Tot Hill Farm as much as my comments might let-on.

I only played it once, but I don't remember a single GOOD shot that I hit hitting a boulder!

Its generally not the good shots that get punished at any course (at least, if its worth its salt).  Its the nearly good shots that, at Tot Hill Farm, get punished exponentially more than at other courses.  In my third round at Tot Hill Farm, on #13, I saw consecutive shots (hit by myself and another in my group) miss the green 5 feet to the left and then the next five feet to the right.  The first shot ended 30 yards past the green after caron, the second 50 yards short.

The moral of the story (and the course) is that I believe Strantz could have done more to keep the rocks further away from the playing areas.

[A.G._Crockett]

Andrew,
O.K., I'll admit that the funk factor is very, very high on #13, even by Strantz standards.  What I primarily remember about that hole is the levels of the green, though, rather than the rocks.  It's a short iron even from the tips, and most players are only hitting a wedge of some sort.

There are a lot of rocks in the picture, though, aren't there?

[Michael Whitaker]

I drove from Greenville, SC to Tobacco Road a few weeks ago and it took less than 3.5 hours... and we're 100 miles from Charlotte!!! There IS a shortcut (of sorts). Email me and I will send you directions from the Charlotte airport that will get you there in around 2 hours.

[Tim Gavrich]

A.G.,

Maybe I don't dislike Tot Hill Farm as much as my comments might let-on.

I only played it once, but I don't remember a single GOOD shot that I hit hitting a boulder!

Its generally not the good shots that get punished at any course (at least, if its worth its salt).  Its the nearly good shots that, at Tot Hill Farm, get punished exponentially more than at other courses.  In my third round at Tot Hill Farm, on #13, I saw consecutive shots (hit by myself and another in my group) miss the green 5 feet to the left and then the next five feet to the right.  The first shot ended 30 yards past the green after caron, the second 50 yards short.

The moral of the story (and the course) is that I believe Strantz could have done more to keep the rocks further away from the playing areas.

Andrew, I don't mean to say you follow this belief about golf, but aren't Tot Hill Farm's rocks no different than the funny bounces that can occur on a links course playing firm and fast?  Sure, the bounces are bigger off of rocks, but that's the "rub of the green," no?

At Tot Hill Farm, there seemed to be a lot of greens with obscenely forgiving backstop areas.  I believe that on the 16th hole, one hit a bad shot, but the bowl effect would sweep the ball as close as a great shot.  Was this a misguided attempt to offset the severity of the rocks?  It didn't really ruin the course for me, since I'm a huge Strantz fan, but it certainly leveled the playing field a bit.

[cary lichtenstein]

I don't quite understand the debate about the rocks, vis a vi a ball carooning off them.

I thought the rocks were for the most par out of play, I didn't hit any, as that is proof positive . But even so, this is a recommendation to go play the course 1 time.

It is not Strantz's best, but it is so unique, so much fun to play and experience, that I can not understand someone not wanting to go play it.

The ending holes do fall apart, as the rocks are no longer visible and the land is more farm land, but so what.