If water cost a dollar a gallon,

[Patrick_Mucci]

how quickly and how radically would golf in America be changed ?

And, how would it be changed ?

[Craig Sweet]

Golf would be the least of our worries.

[Michael Moore]

Coolers filled with icy cold water would no longer be placed on the course.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Why didn't it surprise me that non-architectural responses would emanate from Craig and Michael ?

They're indicative of those who have nothing substantive to offer or contribute.

[Craig Sweet]

Patrick...I live in the reality of the water scarce west.

[Craig Sweet]

But Patrick...before I head to work....last night we put down 720,000 gals. of water on our course. You do the math on $1 a gal. water....

Now tell me, is something as trite as "golf course architecture" such a big deal?

Like I said, golf would be the least of our worries.

[Michael Moore]

Pat -

To answer the question, most golf courses would probably be repurposed as mass graves to hold the millions and millions of dead from starvation, dehydration, illness and civil war.

Is that better?

[Mike_Young]

2000 courses would close
fungicide use would drop
mower sales would slide
greens would become smaller
on course restrooms would close
possibly irrigation head sales would decrease
rounds would becomefaster
And on and on

[paul cowley]

Bottled water already costs a dollar a gallon and exceeds the price of gasoline when totalling up a comparable amount of smaller bottles.....who would of thought that 20 years ago?

Profits from the sale of bottled water is major for Coke and Pepsi......I just hope there is enough fluoride in toothpaste today to combat tooth decay, because kids sure aren't getting it from tap water.

[Donnie Beck]

2000   6,158,600
2001   6,774,600
2002      6,960,000
2003      4,734,000
2004      6,645,800
2005      5,557,000

Here is what your annual water use would be with Limited Fairway irrigation on sandy soils in the northeast.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Michael Moore,

Since you can't understand the nature of the question, let me try to assist you.

Certain states, especially winter resort or vacation states, (read, the south) have begun mandating the use of effluent water, provided by municipalities or specified agencies.

The cost of this water wasn't onerous when the mandates were initiated.

The costs have risen dramatically subsequent to the initial mandate, and, there's no alternative source permited, the city/authority are the sole source, so NO competitive market exists.

Some states view water charges as a convenient revenue source, an indirect tax on non-residents, since many if not most golf courses in Florida and other Southern States are populated by northerners or snowbirds as they're refered to, who don't vote.

The cost of water for golf courses is being driven up, and will continue to be driven up as the demand for water, for various non-golf uses, continues to escalate.

Try now to make the quantum leap that water provided to golf courses will cost a dollar a gallon, just like the Evian you purchase in the supermarket.

Craig Sweet,

Ditto.

Now, try to confine your posts to Golf Course Architecture and not the Apocalypse

[paul cowley]

In reality we would see a lot of new artificially turfed courses in the West, and an equal amount of artificial turf renovations of the older [or newer ] classics......while the East would go back to doing things the old fashioned way by watering the greens individually [by satellite of course, hard to give that up], while watering the fairways only enough to keep them alive [but hopefully not in a straight row].

TomPaul would donate all the enormous proceeds from his non fiction 'Maintenance Meld' book series to charity....along with the profits from his fiction book, 'Fast and Firm Seminole Nights' [Knights?].

[paul cowley]

Salt Lake City would out compete Las Vegas for golf when a new strain of Paspalum is found that thrives on the local lake water and can be fertilized with a ground brine shrimp and guauno emulsion.

[Voytek Wilczak]

how quickly and how radically would golf in America be changed ?

And, how would it be changed ?

Who cares?

[Patrick_Mucci]

how quickly and how radically would golf in America be changed ?

And, how would it be changed ?

Who cares?

Your reply is proof positive that the quality of the site, the participating posters and the discussions continue to dimish

[paul cowley]

Paspalum would be the mandated grass type in the South, and the cost for a temporary source of fresh water for grow-in will be a new line item on the cost to construct a GC.

Desalination would become more affordable.

Coastal communities might start switching to a separate salt water supply for toilet use in its sewer system that then combines with the grey while on its way to treatment and then to the GC.

Residential irrigation water might become more brackish and landscape planting more salt tolerant.

[paul cowley]

Now wait a minute Patrick.....I feel that my posts are 'like a rising tide that lifts all ships'....including Voyteks  

[Ian Andrew]

Patrick,

I like your question.

I know this may be too short an answer, but golf would look like Hoylake most summers. Courses like Sand Hills and Sutten Bay would not exist because the grow in would be impossibly expensive and the regular water requirements would be too excessive. There also be practically no bluegrass rough and everything would become fescues to deal with the droughty requirements for survival. Golf would also be only for the very rich.

[Voytek Wilczak]

how quickly and how radically would golf in America be changed ?

And, how would it be changed ?

Who cares?

Your reply is proof positive that the quality of the site, the participating posters and the discussions continue to dimish

As is your question...

[Patrick_Mucci]

how quickly and how radically would golf in America be changed ?

And, how would it be changed ?

Who cares?

Your reply is proof positive that the quality of the site, the participating posters and the discussions continue to dimish

As is your question...

That's what happens when you cast pearls before swine.[/color]

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ian Andrew,

Certainly the general public would continue to play the courses of the UK, wouldn't they ?

How would Newport fare ?

Would they become the poster boy for golf courses ?

Fisher's Island ?

I would imagine that green speeds would drop precipitously, that roughs would thin, as they did before centerline irrigation system's throw radii could reach them, and that the older courses, designed at the begining of the century would thrive under the new (return to the old)  playing conditons.

Paul Cowley,

That's some heavy weight you're lifting, or floating  

[Jim_Kennedy]

Pat,
If the golf course is the end user of effluent water, why would their charges rise exorbitantly? It seems that the original user of the clean water pays for it and the processing of it as sewage. Once the delivery infrastructure to a course is in place the per gallon price should remain fairly constant, no? It seems reasonable that the cost might increase slightly, say, if an influx of new courses forces a sewage plant into buying more machinery or hiring more techs, but that shouldn't make for any extreme rise in price.

 

[Patrick_Mucci]

If the golf course is the end user of effluent water, why would their charges rise exorbitantly?

Jim, I can only guess at the initial reasons.
Perhaps the "sell" price was low balled.
I do know that an inordinate number and the amount of contaminents caused major problems, and perhaps the solution to these problems caused an increase in price.

It seems that the original user of the clean water pays for it and the processing of it as sewage.

True.

Once the delivery infrastructure to a course is in place the per gallon price should remain fairly constant, no?

If the municipality/authority/agency needs money, what better way to raise it than to raise the price of a product that can't be purchased elsewhere, to an entity composed of non-residents who can't vote.

It seems reasonable that the cost might increase slightly, say, if an influx of new courses forces a sewage plant into buying more machinery or hiring more techs, but that shouldn't make for any extreme rise in price.

While the price has gone up significantly, it hasn't been extreme, but, it's an ongoing issue, and the price will certainly continue to rise.

Clubs that don't review their water use patterns will have to raise their dues or place their golf course in harm's way.

If one reviews budgets, and looks at energy, labor, insurance and other fixed costs, the trend isn't favorable.  If you add an escalating cost for water, it gets worse.

Clubs should devise alternate, long and short range plans for limited water use.

I recall, not that many years ago, when water restrictions were placed on my club, and the state placed monitors on ALL sources for future allocation assessment.

I believe tees and greens received priority.

If water rationing were implemented today, how quickly and how radically would golf courses change ?

[Kirk Gill]

Is it possible that, given Mr. Mucci's scenario, that some golf courses would look into the possibility of creating more ponds and lakes on their property for the purpose of caching water for irrigation? Would this be feasible?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kirk,

You can create all the ponds and lakes you want.

The State of New Jersey, and I suspect other States, monitor every ounce of water usage, they've mandated that all sources be metered, so having capacity is of no use if the State won't permit usage.

At one time we looked into recycling the outflow water created by the air conditioning system in the clubhouse.

But, every drop is monitored, irrespective of its source.