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Kyle Harris

Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« on: July 18, 2006, 06:57:38 PM »
After spending this past weekend in Tampa and Lake Wales at my future place of employment: Mountain Lake CC I am still in awe of my first Raynor experience.

Jordan Wall (Be-a-ditz on the Biarritz):


Bill Vostinak (Redan - look at that kicker!):


Craig Disher (Short):


More discussion/eye candy in a bit.  ;D


Kyle Harris

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2006, 07:39:47 PM »
Okay as my photos upload some general comments.

This being my first Raynor I had some preconceived notions, most of which were proven false.

Bunkering: Raynor's bunkering is VERY effective in both visiual presentation/deception and contouring. I've heard of Raynor courses being panned for having mundane "squarish" bunkering and while Mountain Lake features a lot of square features (excessively so in a few examples) the angles, mounding and contouring of the bunkers are still very sophisticated. Raynor seems to use height variance to give the effect that bunkers are next to each other or co-linear when in fact there is 30-40 yards of fairway between them. A very interesting way to proffer lack of definition in features.

Greens: While in some cases very geometric, the square greens with brash features are very neat IMO. While not the subtle, flowing contours of a Flynn green or the ridges and plateaus of a Ross, the Raynor greens at Mountain Lake place an interesting premium on shot value. Lag putting from the wrong area is a challenge on all 18.

Length: At 6600 yards, the course is hardly long, but is such a chess match of angle and control that is only enhanced by recent hurricane aided tree removal.

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2006, 08:03:41 PM »
Kyle -
You will no doubt no more about this in time, but
I would be careful attributing too much of the squarish
features to Raynor. I think Silva (who did a good job),
did go a bit overboard with the squaring off of certain
bunkers.

Congrats on the posting.

TEPaul

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2006, 08:26:13 PM »
Kyle:

You're going to work at Mountain Lake? Good deal. You will obviously run into my good buddy Ned Young (from GMGC) who lives there in the winter and is the Green Chairman of Mountain Lake.

Yep, BrianS put the squarish features into ML in his recent restoration. He basically did the same at Fox Chapel.

The way it was told to me by a couple of members of ML was that Brian, who can be incredibly hilarious spoke to the membership about their options with their course.

I guess the membership expected Brian to give them some super-detailed and sophisticated power point presentation and talk or something but that's not Brian's style.

So Brian gets up in front of the membership and says;

"You people are playing on a complete dog track right now (knowing Brian maybe he actually said they were playing on a complete piece of shit course right now ;) and that got somehow translated into a dog track). But underneath this dog track is the bones of a great golf course. So you people have a simple choice here. 1. You can continue to play on a complete dog track for the rest of your lives or, 2. You can hire me and I will reexpose the great bones of this place and give you a great golf course again. The choice is yours."

And Brian sits down to the total astonishment of the members of ML.

I love it.    ;)

Now, however, any additional architectural work or advice or whatever that needs to be done at ML will likely be done under the good offices of Ron Prichard---even if that may mean, under some form of odd or peculiar reality---me.  ;)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2006, 08:44:00 PM by TEPaul »

Jordan Wall

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2006, 09:13:32 PM »
Kyle,

I am glad you liked it.

The Ditz

Kenny Lee Puckett

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2006, 10:25:56 PM »
Congrats!

When do you make the move?

Thanks God you'll finally get to see some real college football!!!   ;D

Can Raynor hold a candle to Park, Jr.?  (You know how I feel)

All the very best!

JWK

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2006, 10:48:05 PM »
Congrats Kyle, I look forward to seeing you there this winter.

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mountain Lake
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2006, 11:20:16 PM »
Kyle, those photos are wonderful.  I've played Mountain Lake three times - all of them "in season" during the winter when it isn't lush.  I like the summer look better, at least as photographed by you.  I hit the link to your blog.  Why not a golf course photojounalist?

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2006, 11:22:30 PM »
Kyle

my wife has a Buccaneers Jacket  8).  Tampa and a revisit to Orlando is a possible future holiday, especially if NFL is on.  I now have another reason to think favourably of Tampa.

Best wishes.  I expect to see a range of Florida architecture displayed on GCA in the coming months.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Kyle Harris

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2006, 04:57:27 AM »
Kyle

my wife has a Buccaneers Jacket  8).  Tampa and a revisit to Orlando is a possible future holiday, especially if NFL is on.  I now have another reason to think favourably of Tampa.

Best wishes.  I expect to see a range of Florida architecture displayed on GCA in the coming months.

James B

From what I've seen of some of the other courses - the range may be all that is worth photographing.  ;D

Kyle Harris

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2006, 05:23:57 AM »
Apparently my upload limit's been reached for the month, so I could only get one more picture on flickr. I may open a photobucket account later.

Here's the double-plateu first green from the front right.


Tom Roewer

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2006, 06:37:23 AM »
Kyle:  Congratulations!  I was just there the other day.  Make sure you visit Bok Tower Gardens and get into the history of the entire place.  Very interesting stuff.  I wish you the best and if you are coming to Tampa let me know.  Bucs tickets are possible too.

Mike_Sweeney

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2006, 07:04:42 AM »

Here's the double-plateu first green from the front right.



From a left front angle on #1, in the winter after the three hurricanes hit Mountain Lake.


Craig_Rokke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2006, 07:44:38 AM »
Kyle-

Congratulations and good luck!

Sally Livingston

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2006, 09:24:39 AM »
Welcome to Florida Kyle and congratulations! What a classic place! Are you coming in as Sup or head pro? Hope to see you some time - let me know if you ever need anything -I'm right up the road at Reunion.

Jordan Wall

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2006, 09:55:09 AM »
This is why Kyle moved, IMO.

Since he used to live in Philly, he got jealous.
He didnt like the fact that the Eagles lost 42-0 to the Seahawks Monday night
 :o
Now he has the Bucs
Albeit the Bucs are a bit better, but in the end the score would be the same

As for the golf, I would take Penn. over Flo. but Kyle, have a great time man!!
Talk soon,
 :)

Jordan


Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2006, 10:48:20 AM »
Jordon, We all are with you on Penn over Florida in golf, but 12 months a year makes Florida the better play.

Craig Disher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2006, 12:06:17 PM »
Kyle,
To be clear about this, I've been measured at 5'9" in socks although some have commented that I'm well over the US national average at 5'10".  ;)

From your pictures I can see a lot of similarity to Fox Chapel. I do think Raynor's style looks even better in FL, though. Maybe it's the sharp angles on the palm trees and the bright colors. And the short hole looks like it's right up my alley.



Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2006, 12:18:17 PM »
Craig,

Maybe Kyle was referring to your length off the tee, instead of vertical stature.   ;) ;D

Craig Disher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #19 on: July 19, 2006, 12:51:48 PM »
Scott,
I considered that possibility but since a 210 yard power fade can't be considered short I concluded that he must have been referring to my height.  ;)

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #20 on: July 19, 2006, 12:57:31 PM »
Having had the pleasure of playing with Craig, I thought the nickname 'Short' was a testament to the excellence of the strongest part of his game as in

'Long' John Daly
'Short' Craig Disher :D
Let's make GCA grate again!

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #21 on: July 19, 2006, 01:09:35 PM »
...210 yard power fade....

That was with your 6-iron, IIRC.

Kyle Harris

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2006, 02:59:46 PM »
To clarify, I am still in Philadelphia until November, and only staying for the season down there. Haven't moved yet.

Kyle Harris

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2006, 03:55:07 PM »
Now that my Flickr account has reset for the month, here are some more photos from my trip.

The 8th Green, one of the most appealing approaches I've ever seen.


The opening hole:


The Island 8th Tee:

Kyle Harris

Re:Jordan Wall, Bill Vostinak, Craig Disher
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2006, 08:22:01 PM »
One of the striking things about Mountain Lake was the use of visual deception by Raynor on such a flat sight.

An example from the 13th hole - here's the tee shot (note how the fairway bunkers seem to be all one distance from the tee and the fairway line is not evident):


But, upon closer inspection, one finds about 30 yards of fairway between the bunkers on the right and the one on the left. This makes finding an appropriate line off the tee (and judging the carry) that much more difficult.