Snow White Sand

[Adam_F_Collins]

I started a thread about this long ago, and the "Wall of Bunkers" pics made me think about it again.

What's with snow white sand? I really hate it in most instances. Why do people love it so?

Does this white sand have certain properties which other sand does not? If so, couldn't the sand be coloured to blend into natural setting better?

One thing I really disliked about Tom McBroom's work at Crowbush Cove in Prince Edward Island was his use of that friggin' white sand. Here we are, on the beach, and there's this unearthly substance scattered everywhere.

I think it can work very well on courses which are going for that unearthly, manicured garden look - as long as there is no naturally exposed sand on the site to contrast it with. Otherwise - hold the salt.

Do you like it?







The sand at this beach was pretty white - why not just make the bunker sand the same?

[Eric Franzen]

How can you resist modest architecture like this?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow.....I like the whilte!

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Eric Franzen]

...actually, I am getting more and more disturbed by the tasteless contrast between the brown and the white sand in your picture than Trumps bunker parade displayed above.

I'll join in and echo the question: why?

[Bill Weber]

In my case I find that in brilliant sunlight the glare actually hurts my eyes! Even though I always wear good sun glasses, maybe has to do with my age.

[Doug Ralston]

The best sand, BY FAR, I have ever seen was at Purgatory in Indy. It was ground limestone. It was not white, but the properties were fantastic. You could walk through it and it flowed back into its holes, leaving almost no need for maintainence. And your ball always 'flowed' too, to a rather flat part of the bunker. There were NO 'fried egg' lies.

You may be offended by these 'easy' bunkers [though at Purgatory there were certainly a LOT of them]; but I loved them. I have not yet learned the art of bunker play, and these made it possible for me to still play some kind of shot. Wish they were everywhere I played!

Doug

[Patrick_Mucci]

Why isn't everyone critical of MacKenzie's Cypress Point Club ?

Before you answer, read Geoff Shackelford's two books,
"Alister MacKenzie's Cypress Point Club" and "The Golden Age of Golf Design".

Eric Franzen,

How different is the picture you criticized from the picture of the par 5, 5th  hole at CPC which appears on page 143, as well as pictures of the 13th and 15th holes which appear on pages 149 and 150 of "TGAOGD" ?

If you're going to apply a standard, apply it universally, not selectively.

P.S.  I saw some pretty neat black and white photos of Friar's
        Head with some nice white sand.
       Tommy Naccarato, can you post them again ?

[Adam_F_Collins]

Why isn't everyone critical of MacKenzie's Cypress Point Club ?

Before you answer, read Geoff Shackelford's two books,
"Alister MacKenzie's Cypress Point Club" and "The Golden Age of Golf Design".

Eric Franzen,

How different is the picture you criticized from the picture of the par 5, 5th  hole at CPC which appears on page 143, as well as pictures of the 13th and 15th holes which appear on pages 149 and 150 of "TGAOGD" ?

If you're going to apply a standard, apply it universally, not selectively.

P.S.  I saw some pretty neat black and white photos of Friar's
        Head with some nice white sand.
       Tommy Naccarato, can you post them again ?

If the bunker sand at CPC contrasts with naturally-occurring sand, then I would criticize it, because MacKenzie was a proponent of blending the golf course into nature.

As I mentioned, on sites where there is no naturally-occurring sand, or on courses which are making no attempt to appear natural (I might even include ANGC here) I think it's fine. After all, it DOES contrast quite nicely with Masters Green...

[Eric Franzen]

Patrick,

I wasn't "going to apply a standard". I was commenting on one specific picture.

I can dislike the use of slide guitar on one specific song. That doesn't mean that I'll hate the instrument and want it remowed from every record that I own.

[john_stiles]

I do not like the bright white sand either.  Even though this bright white appears every week in April, and is worshipped by many,   it doesn't fit my eye in most situations.

Maybe in Florida, some beachy or sandy course locations,  it isn't too bad. Not my favorite color on most inland courses.

 I imagine, in the big world theory, it might actually be picked because it is the most economical.  In other situations remember,  the architect doesn't pick the sand, or maybe doesn't pick the sand and the color of the sand.

Sometimes the owner(s) or powers to be select the sand.

Sometimes the  PTB should be treated like sacred cows but many times they are stumbling about and literally pick a color from a very very small sample jar.  Then they might say something like I didn't know it was going to be that white.  It has been known to happen.  

Pass the Maui Jims.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Doug,
We used to have a similar (limestone) product in our bunkers, as did several other clubs in the area. There were a few problems with it, for instance, after a rain it turned into concrete if it wasn't fluffed up. This situation got progressively worse as silt/soil infiltrated the bunkers.
Although it was 'easy' to hit a ball out of it when it was dry, there was little in the way of control because it wouldn't bind to itself. When it was wet (before turning to concrete) it was worse to play from, it stuck to the clubface and the ball. I've witnessed many players with limited ability 'stab' it and leave both club and ball in this muck.

Yuck!  

[Anthony_Nysse]

Pat,
  The sand at Friars Head was native and taken from the dunes on the golf course-nothing was brought in.


Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Scott Witter]

About 7 years a ago I went to Spain to spend some time, play their courses, with Dave & Paul Thomas, architects from England and really fun people BTW.  We stayed in southern Spain at the Almanara Resort they edsigned it, and played the two courses at the resort among others in the area.  The sand at the Almanara resort was SOOOOO...white it was honestly and actually blinding to look at in the sun.   I finally walked into one, I was playing well and didn't land in any, and took out some "sand"  I asked Paul Thomas what the "sand" was and he said it really wasn't sand at all, but that it was crushed/pulverized white marble!! from a processing plant.  Now that was white!

[cary lichtenstein]

I really dislike bright white sand, every time I play McArthur I get a headache, ditto with my wife

I don't understand its attraction

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Patrick,
You jumped the shark on that one.

The sand from Friar's Head was all natural from the existing site. It's not even close to the attrocities of White Crushed Marble which is the point of Adam's post.

I've got some images from Dump National-Los Angeles to really show you what WHITE is all about!

[ET]

Beyond white. Many members of private clubs complain that: 1- not enough sand in the bunkers and 2- they are all different.
I think that is just the way it should be, difficult places that require various ways of escape. They shouldn't all be white nor same depth of sand.

[Bill Gayne]

The color of the sand doesn't make one bit of difference to the strategic merits or the architecture of the golf course. In my mind it's one of the critiques of last resort.

I asked my six and nine year old while watching the Masters: Where does the white go when the snow melts?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Bill, I couldn't disagree more.

[Bill Gayne]

Tommy,

Why, I've never understood the concern with sand color beyond the aesthetic.

[Adam_F_Collins]

The color of the sand doesn't make one bit of difference to the strategic merits or the architecture of the golf course....

At some point, aesthetic concerns usually come into the equation, Bill. How far off can the aesthetics get before they bother you? If the entire golf course was made of perfectly geometric shapes, greens, tees bunkers of perfect squares, triangles and circles; multi-colored bunker sand, one red, a blue one and so on... perfect, pyramid-shaped mounds... nothing that affected the strategic merits of the golf course, mind you. Would you be okay with that?

For some, myself included, aesthetic qualities which appear odd, incongruent or awkward with the landscape they reside within can be distracting at a much earlier point, that's all.

For some, a single hand print on the glass is enough to make them run for the Windex. For others, it takes not being able to see through the glass at all.

[Patrick_Mucci]

John Stiles,

Sugar sand, which is plentiful in parts of Florida is pretty white.

Anthony Nysse,

I never said that Friar's Head's sand wasn't native, only that it appeared to be bright white in photos posted by Tommy Naccarato.

Tommy Naccarato,

White sand has its place.

CPC, Friar's Head, The Medalist and others.

Sometimes, clubs are more interested in how photogenic they are, ie, the courses you mentioned.

AFC,

I'd agree that using native sand would seem preferable.

I lamented Due Process's changing their brownish native sand for bright white sand, it just doesn't fit.

I don't think you can consider color alone.
You have to consider texture, availability, management, etc., etc..

Robert Randquist, the extraordinary superintendent at Boca Rio wrote a terrific white paper on bunkers that was published on this site.

Color alone isn't the determining factor in deciding what sand best suits the needs of the golf course.

[Bill Gayne]

Adam,

I guess I'm the person that leaves the windex on the shelf. The color of the sand just doesn't disturb my view of the golf course.

The Augusta National has blistering white sand, dye in the ponds, mostly oval shaped bunkers with neatly trimmed edges, and rectangular tee boxes. Most of which is completely incongruent with anything outside the boundaries of the golf club. All of these are items that many find patently offensive. None of it bothers me.

[guesst]

Don't get me wrong; I LOVE sand.  I am more at home in a bunker than anywhere else on the golf course.  I know I can always get out, and I can quit worrying about getting in!

But  I hate white in most instances -- especially in the desert or on the beach when it contrasts starkly with the natural sand all around.  It is so incongruous, it's like putting a rap music score in a Jane Austin movie.  

Now, if wrenching the eye and startling the mind is the desired effect, then white sand is the way to go . . . Otherwise, I prefer it to blend with the sand "natural" to the place.

Of course, if the condos along the fairways are white, that's a different story all together . . .

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Bill, Hang with me a bit. We'll change that attitude!  

Actually, Adam has pretty much hit my critique of it squarely on the head. Before you were on here, about four years ago, I was commissioned by a very astute observer of the website, to apply my Photoshop abilities to a photo of Royal County Down with bunkers that were from a Rees Jones course with blinding white crushed marble. (Just to reinform my good friend Patrick Mucci, there is a H-U-G-E difference between white sand and crushed white marble, and the dunes of Friar's Head are not even remotely close to the same charateristics in color and consistency! THANK GOD!)

When I displayed the two photos, it was obvious that there was a huge difference--rough scraggley bunkering to clean edged and just plain F-ing BRIGHT WHITE.  

The reason why is--and I'll quote my friend who sponsored these notions and commissioned the photo--that we all have different lenses, different eyes. The same can be said of tasting wine. Some of us have different palates so things taste differently.

Then there are some of us that are limited because we don't know how to open up the aperature, focus it, let alone do simple cleaning and maintanence. But we do have the ability to see, and when you do--WHAMO!--You'll suddenly be able to see it!

I know this because I have been on that side of the fence.

The very first time I saw it was in The World Golf Atlas when reading the review of Merion for the very first time. Looking at those bunkers, I was sort of like, "well that doesn't look very appealing"And  in fact, your going to get a HUGE laugh out of this--I thought Ted Robinson's pot bunkers looked great! How's that for dirty and out of focus?!?!?! (this is in fact the truth) But then where it really took hold was when I saw for the very first time what the bunkers once looked like at Riviera.

And that was my epiphany!

So in my best Morpheus-like voice, (from the movie, The Matrix.)

You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

Take the Red pill Bill. You won't be sorry.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

There's nothing better then having an artist on a golf course Bill, and with Dee Dee posting shortly before me, I'll also reiterate the very first day I ever saw her. I was thinking about it yesterday while trying to sketch it at one of my 12 Step meetings.

.......she was a vision of loveliness, dressed in this drab white linen with this big flowing hat that shaded her pale skin from the hot desert sun.

The back drop was a golf course, saturated in crushed white marble, trying to make one believe that they had been transformed into the dream world of Bali Hai.....

Guess which looked better: Darva Dee Dee Papazian or Bali Hai?

Trust me when I say this, God made only one Darva Dee Dee!

Dee Dee, you couldn't have posted at a better time.