Sacred Cows

[Dan King]

Jud Tigerman writes:
Pebble is at least a semi-sacred cow...

If Pebble is a sacred cow on this site I guess I really don't understand the definition of a sacred cow.

Cheers,
Dan King

By all means screw their women and drink their booze but never write one word about their bloody awful golf course.
  --Henry Longhurst (advise to a fellow journalist being pressed to make a trip to a new expensive golf development)

[Tom_Doak]

Jud Tigerman writes:
Pebble is at least a semi-sacred cow...

If Pebble is a sacred cow on this site I guess I really don't understand the definition of a sacred cow.

Cheers,
Dan King

By all means screw their women and drink their booze but never write one word about their bloody awful golf course.
  --Henry Longhurst (advise to a fellow journalist being pressed to make a trip to a new expensive golf development)

Dan King!  Having 38 posters call me a sacred cow was worth it for an appearance by Dan.  Even if I've seen that quote before!

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

Do you think the concept of Askernish is a sacred cow?  Having not been there I am curious to see whether it is really 'cool' or just 'cool to say its cool'.  I suppose not enough people will have seen it to make that call yet.  Perhaps not specifically Askernish but that sort of concept.  If it was readily accessible to the mass market would they embrace it?

I cant remember hearing one negative comment about Askernish, when I for one have said a similar project like Mach Dunes that just doesn't do it for me.

Simon

Simon:

"The concept of Askernish" [very well put!] could be a sacred cow, though really not enough people have seen it.  I think it's completely different than Machrihanish Dunes, because it was built by the locals for themselves and to attract visitors, but not as a commercial enterprise as Machrihanish Dunes is.  And, it's very hard to spend time with Ralph Thompson and the locals and not find affection for what they've done up there.

Speaking of which, I've got to get back up there in 2012.  Maybe you should come up with me.

[Mac Plumart]

Tom...you might be right.  I need to think about it some more.  And you touch on one thing that kind of stinks...and that is people not wanting to speak truthful criticisms for whatever reason.  And to your point about people not wanting to say negative things because they are afraid of looking stupid...is that a signal of a sacred cow?  I think it might be.

Simon...I think you might be correct regarding Askernish as well.  I would really, really enjoy a BUDA or something were a ton of GCAers would go to Askernish and experience it for a day or three.  Then talk about it honestly online.  And I mean talk about the great things and the things that people didn't like about it.  To me, that would be one of the most interesting discussions we could have.

Pebble can't be a sacred cow on this site.  People criticize it all the time.  Maybe it is a sacred cow in the real world, like Augusta is.

[Anthony Gray]

  NGLA. It has alot of blind shots early in the round but nobody mentions it.

Anthony - is that a good thing or a bad thing (the blindness)?

  If they criticize Cruden Bay for the blindness than why not The National. There is too much blindness early on in the round at NGLA.

  Anthony

[Dan King]

Tom Doak writes:
Dan King!  Having 38 posters call me a sacred cow was worth it for an appearance by Dan.  Even if I've seen that quote before!

Why thank you Mr. Doak. I'm thinking about a return to golf in preparation for Kings Putter 2013.

Hopefully my below quote is one you haven't already seen.

Anthony Gray writes:
 If they criticize Cruden Bay for the blindness than why not The National. There is too much blindness early on in the round at NGLA.

Cruden Bay is crap. Please, everyone stay away from there. If forced to go to Cruden Bay you are much better off staying in there very pretty clubhouse and just stay away from the golf course. Maybe make a stop at the Kilmarnock Arms Hotel to get some Bram Stroker vibe, but then get out of town.

Cheers,
Dan King

[Crudin Bay] A great personal favorite of mine which I hated to leave out of my Gourmet's Choice; but I couldn't list it as superior to Simpson's Ballybunion. Cruden Bay is more of a "cult" course, thanks to it's huge sandhills, superb views, great and terrible holes, and relative anonymity.
 --Tom Doak

[Simon Holt]

Tom,

Sure, that would be cool.  Tough to convince my North Berwick pals and the pros at Renaissance to venture to such places.

Mac,

Cool concept for BUDA to go to Askernish.  I think Machrihanish and Mach Dunes is a much more doable venue which could provide some really interesting debates with regard to Old v New, conditioning, blindness.  There is also more golf so logistically worth doing a BUDA there.

Anthony,

There is not too much blindness early in the round at NGLA-  for me it will remain sacred!  Good for you for airing your honest thoughts though.

Is a certain golf course developer the anthesis of a Sacred Cow?  He certainly seems to be at the moment!

[Tom_Doak]

Cheers,
Dan King

[Crudin Bay] A great personal favorite of mine which I hated to leave out of my Gourmet's Choice; but I couldn't list it as superior to Simpson's Ballybunion. Cruden Bay is more of a "cult" course, thanks to it's huge sandhills, superb views, great and terrible holes, and relative anonymity.
 --Tom Doak

Dan:

That's a good quote, but there's no way I put the apostrophe in "it's".  And I hope to God my publisher didn't, or I will never hear the end of it from my wife.

[Dan King]

Tom Doak writes:
That's a good quote, but there's no way I put the apostrophe in "it's".  And I hope to God my publisher didn't, or I will never hear the end of it from my wife.

See, I told you I could find an unfamiliar quote. I checked just to make sure (I'm sure I got the quote from your self-published version.) And it looks like I added that apostrophe years ago when I typed it in (just part of being young and foolish.) What can I say: my bad. It's good to see you still got your editor chops.

Cheers,
Dan King

“The fool supply was controlled...”
― John Steinbeck, The Moon is Down

[Mike_Young]

"Sacred Cows make the tastiest hamburger"  Abbie Hoffman

[Peter Pallotta]

I've been thinking about such things lately.  I think the reason there are sacred cows is not that we love the cows so much but that we're hungry for the sacred.  We're so hungry for it that we're willing to attach it to just about anything that stands out as special or different.  I'm glad we attach it to golf courses -- that's so much more peaceful and non-invasive than attaching it to the latest "ism"  (fascism and communism being just a couple that marred on an entire century).  Thankfully, as far as I know, none of the minimalists around are planning to overthrow the government.

Peter

 

[archie_struthers]

 

Hey guys , there are lots of sacred cows here,  courses and a few people, so be it !  There were a few sacred cows that left, and the site would be better with them .  Let's leave what ever cow chips are left to fall in the field and enjoy the discussions on GCA , golf in general and the occasional ot thread.

Thanks to all the architects who participate , we are richer for your analysis and interaction. Ditto for the superintendents and operators who regularly post , thank you!

Don't be afraid to question, and try to make criticism constructive and we will all be the wiser.  For those above criticism, mooooooooooo!

[Bill_McBride]

Jud,

Really?  People say its overrated quite often.  I have never played but walked it quite a few times.  Looks pretty good to me but I have definitely noticed GCAers saying its NOT all that.

Simon, that's from GCA'ers trying to be cool.    Pebble is World Top 100.  

[Simon Holt]

I dont doubt it Bill.

[Matthew Sander]

Thankfully, as far as I know, none of the minimalists around are planning to overthrow the government.

Peter

Peter,

Your above line caught me off guard and nearly caused a laughter induced aneurysm.

However, I wouldn't be so sure...from the looks of Mr. Crenshaw's hair in the Streamsong videos ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7w_P45hNoU ) it seems his inner-anarchist may be bubbling to the surface.

[Dan King]

PPallotta writes:
Thankfully, as far as I know, none of the minimalists around are planning to overthrow the government.

As a proud minimalist, my No. 1 goal is a return to the three-hour golf round. My No. 2 goal is to overthrow the government (and just in case all you folks at Homeland Security are paying attention, I'm not even planning on starting my No. 2 goal until I have achieved my No. 1 goal.)

Cheers,
Dan King

Are not laws dangerous which inhibit the passions? Compare the centuries of anarchy with those of the strongest legalism in any country you like and you will see that it is only when the laws are silent that the greatest actions appear.
 --Marquis de Sade

[Chip Gaskins]

Merion
NGLA
Frairs Head
All, sacred cows....

[Bill_McBride]

I dont doubt it Bill.

Whoops, I meant World Top 10.   Are we still good?

[Sean_A]

Tom Doak writes:
Dan King!  Having 38 posters call me a sacred cow was worth it for an appearance by Dan.  Even if I've seen that quote before!

Why thank you Mr. Doak. I'm thinking about a return to golf in preparation for Kings Putter 2013.

Hopefully my below quote is one you haven't already seen.

Anthony Gray writes:
 If they criticize Cruden Bay for the blindness than why not The National. There is too much blindness early on in the round at NGLA.

Cruden Bay is crap. Please, everyone stay away from there. If forced to go to Cruden Bay you are much better off staying in there very pretty clubhouse and just stay away from the golf course. Maybe make a stop at the Kilmarnock Arms Hotel to get some Bram Stroker vibe, but then get out of town.

Cheers,
Dan King

[Crudin Bay] A great personal favorite of mine which I hated to leave out of my Gourmet's Choice; but I couldn't list it as superior to Simpson's Ballybunion. Cruden Bay is more of a "cult" course, thanks to it's huge sandhills, superb views, great and terrible holes, and relative anonymity.
 --Tom Doak

There are all sorts of lovely tyops in the above.  Long may it be so.

Related to the topic, I thought a scared cow was something held above criticism, but maybe unreasonably so.  I am seeing some courses listed that I think are universal givens as great.  So are folks saying they are critical enough of these courses to knock them off the great pedestal or is it just nit picking?



Ciao

[Ben Sims]

I've been at the Golf Industry Show for three days now and I've met a lot of sacred cows. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom Doak,

Because of your generous participation and contributions to the quality of the discussions on this site, I think it's safe to say that both you and your golf courses are sacred cows.

But, that's certainly not the worst thing in the world, and you are in good company

[Kalen Braley]

When I went to India, I saw a lot of sacred cows...



Speaking of India, any projects going on there?

[archie_struthers]

 

Now that's on point Kalen!