The Amateur Championship

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn

I would expect the method of settling ties is adequately covered in the entry/application form.

Yes, I make sure to read every word of those, I know everyone does.

[JESII]

Glenn

I would expect the method of settling ties is adequately covered in the entry/application form.

Yes, I make sure to read every word of those, I know everyone does.

I never send one in without an attorney reviewing it and providing me a summary.




Seriously though. How many players make match play in the British Mid Amateur? Is it 32 or 64?

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn

I would expect the method of settling ties is adequately covered in the entry/application form.

Yes, I make sure to read every word of those, I know everyone does.

I never send one in without an attorney reviewing it and providing me a summary.




Seriously though. How many players make match play in the British Mid Amateur? Is it 32 or 64?

You owe me 3oz. of diet coke. That was great. I don't know, if it is 32, then that is even more egregious.

[JESII]

agreed.

[John_Cullum]

Glenn

Keep this in perspective. Playoffs are time consuming. We're merely trying to find out who gets the last spot in to the match play prtion of the championship-the guy who will go up against the medalist. Settling it by matching cards is not likely to affect the outcome of the championship.

Clay Ogden- qualified in playoff and won the 2005 Publinx, I would say that is affecting the outcome of the championship. The last guy in has beaten the medalist many times in the US Amateur. This format is a joke and this tournament is a joke because of it. What happens if I shoot 70-76 and you shoot 70-76, do you go back to the 18th hole or something. This is for club events, not REAL tournaments.

JES,

I obviously have no other plan because there is only one way to do it.

Clay Ogden was exempt into the championship because of his high finish in the 2004 Publinx. Do you have a problem with that too? Shouldn't everyone have to tee it up in a local and make it from there?

[JESII]

John,

To the oppose your view, why not just invite the 32 players you want there and pair them however you want?

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn

Keep this in perspective. Playoffs are time consuming. We're merely trying to find out who gets the last spot in to the match play prtion of the championship-the guy who will go up against the medalist. Settling it by matching cards is not likely to affect the outcome of the championship.

Clay Ogden- qualified in playoff and won the 2005 Publinx, I would say that is affecting the outcome of the championship. The last guy in has beaten the medalist many times in the US Amateur. This format is a joke and this tournament is a joke because of it. What happens if I shoot 70-76 and you shoot 70-76, do you go back to the 18th hole or something. This is for club events, not REAL tournaments.

JES,

I obviously have no other plan because there is only one way to do it.

Clay Ogden was exempt into the championship because of his high finish in the 2004 Publinx. Do you have a problem with that too? Shouldn't everyone have to tee it up in a local and make it from there?

What are you talking about? He was exempt into the championship, yes, not the match play. 2 totally different things!!!!!

[John_Cullum]

Not really. You want everyone to play there way in to any championship. He didn't, he got an exemption because of something he did 12 months earlier.

It's a matter of degree.

By the way, we seem to be mistaken about the R and A Amateur Championship. Low 64 and ties get into the match play. I suspect the matching of cards is only used for seeding.

[Glenn Spencer]

Not really. You want everyone to play there way in to any championship. He didn't, he got an exemption because of something he did 12 months earlier.

It's a matter of degree.

By the way, we seem to be mistaken about the R and A Amateur Championship. Low 64 and ties get into the match play. I suspect the matching of cards is only used for seeding.

I am just going by what has been said about the British Mid-Am and John VB seemed to agree that that is how they do i t in that championship, so I assume it is correct. Being exempt is not the same as playing your way into the championship. Exemptions are not handed out, they are passed out based on someone meeting the qualifications that are preset. So if Ogden was exempt based on his Quarterfinal finish from 04, then he is different from me and that is fine. He deserves it. Once we both go out to qualify for MATCH PLAY, we are the same, his past does not help him at this point. When two people that are thrown into qualifying and both return the same score of 147 and you tell one guy that he is in without hitting any more shots and one guy that he is out without hitting any more shots. It is at this point that you tournament becomes a JOKE.

Ogden is not a matter of degree, you are just trying to make it that way. He got into the match play in 2005 through a playoff and won the tournament, something that he may never have had the chance to do in the British Mid-Am because he shot 73-74 instead of 74-73. If this isn't stupid, I don't know what is.

[ForkaB]

"BTW--an amazingly international group of players teed it up.  Makes our Amateur look downright parochial.

Rich;

To your constantly critical way of looking at the USGA and American golf of course it does. I might remind you that the US Amateur at Merion last year most definitely had good international representation and it was won by an Italian national. How quickly you forget or else how patently uninformed you really are. But what else is a guy to do who, at every turn, can do nothing other than criticize American golf and how it compares to what goes on over there?

Tom

US Am--13% international players (in a Walker Cup year)
UK Am--44% international players (non-Walker Cup year)

Rich

PS--I followed the US Amateur fairly closely last year, as the Italian guy beat the nephew of one of my best freinds in the final.

R

[John_Cullum]

Glenn

This is not an argument worth having, for several reasons:

First, I agree with you that matching cards is a cheesy way of settling ties, and should not be used for serious championships;

Second: from the R&A entry form for the Amateur championship- "4. The 64 lowest scores over the 36 holes and ties for 64th place will compete in the match play stage of the Championship which will commence on Wednesday 21 June over Royal St George’s and be seeded." So they don't use card matching to cut down the field, only for seeding, and I say that is fine.

I am merely advancing the position that matching cards is a valid way of settling ties, admittedly not the best way, but everybody should know that's the way it is when they enter. If you don't read your entry form, don't show up complaining.

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn

This is not an argument worth having, for several reasons:

First, I agree with you that matching cards is a cheesy way of settling ties, and should not be used for serious championships;

Second: from the R&A entry form for the Amateur championship- "4. The 64 lowest scores over the 36 holes and ties for 64th place will compete in the match play stage of the Championship which will commence on Wednesday 21 June over Royal St George’s and be seeded." So they don't use card matching to cut down the field, only for seeding, and I say that is fine.

I am merely advancing the position that matching cards is a valid way of settling ties, admittedly not the best way, but everybody should know that's the way it is when they enter. If you don't read your entry form, don't show up complaining.

John,

I agree with you 100% percent matching cards for seeding is fine they can do that by height for all I care, but the British Mid-Am is matching cards for spots- this is CRIMINAL and A JOKE.

[JohnV]

Glenn

I would expect the method of settling ties is adequately covered in the entry/application form.

Yes, I make sure to read every word of those, I know everyone does.

I never send one in without an attorney reviewing it and providing me a summary.




Seriously though. How many players make match play in the British Mid Amateur? Is it 32 or 64?

64

[JESII]

JVB,

Thank you, if there are 64 spots, that means 32 first round matches. Surely they do not play two matches on the first day of match play. Assuming that is correct then the only explanation for not doing either exactly what they do for the Amateur, or what we do for our Amateur and Mid-Am is that they do not take the event seriously. To tell a guy that travels all that way that he played too well in the first round of a 36 hole qualifier to go home when his 36 hole total is good enough for those that did not play so well in the first 18 is a bit strange. No?

[Sean_A]

"BTW--an amazingly international group of players teed it up.  Makes our Amateur look downright parochial.

Rich;

To your constantly critical way of looking at the USGA and American golf of course it does. I might remind you that the US Amateur at Merion last year most definitely had good international representation and it was won by an Italian national. How quickly you forget or else how patently uninformed you really are. But what else is a guy to do who, at every turn, can do nothing other than criticize American golf and how it compares to what goes on over there?

Tom

US Am--13% international players (in a Walker Cup year)
UK Am--44% international players (non-Walker Cup year)

Rich

PS--I followed the US Amateur fairly closely last year, as the Italian guy beat the nephew of one of my best freinds in the final.

R

Rich & Tom P.

There were so many foreigners signed up for this year's Amateur that folks were calling it the World Am!  I think there will be moves by the R&A to make the handicap qualification a bit tighter as there were two top English Amateurs who didn't even get an entry in this Am.

Ciao

Sean

[Glenn Spencer]

JVB,

Thank you, if there are 64 spots, that means 32 first round matches. Surely they do not play two matches on the first day of match play. Assuming that is correct then the only explanation for not doing either exactly what they do for the Amateur, or what we do for our Amateur and Mid-Am is that they do not take the event seriously. To tell a guy that travels all that way that he played too well in the first round of a 36 hole qualifier to go home when his 36 hole total is good enough for those that did not play so well in the first 18 is a bit strange. No?

More like insulting to great amateur golfers over the age of 25. What an arbitrary thing to, lowest second round score, those are the people that hacked on the first day and went around pressure-free the second round. I am truly shocked by this format. It is outrageous.

[JESII]

It really is a bit bizarre.

With 64 making match play, time is not the issue because it is impossible to play two matches on that first day anyway.

Is today April 1?

[Glenn Spencer]

More like Dec.25 if you play bad the first day and end up tying for the last spots. I CAN'T believe this is the format. This has to be some kind of con or something. Lets see here 73-74 or 80-67? Well you played better today and your have a hat on so we will see you tomorrow on the first tee. Excuse me, but you shot 147 with a 74 today, the airport is that way. What on earth happens if they shoot the same scores both days, back to last year or something?

[ForkaB]

Glenn

What they do is, believe it or not.......

1.  Go to the best back 9.  If that is also a tie
2.  Last 6.....
3.  Last 3
4.  Last 1
5.  Flip a coin

[Glenn Spencer]

Rich,

Thank you for clearing that up. I am now in shock, completely. There is simply no excuse to degrade what should be a wonderful championship in this manner. This tournament is a joke, the winner has been sent home in the past, according to the US similar versions.

[JohnV]

From the entry form which can be found at British Mid-Am Entry

3. The 64 lowest scores over 36 holes will compete in the match play stage of the Championship, which will commence on Friday 18 August.
4. The leading qualifiers will be seeded.  Ties for last place or places will be decided by a card countback using the 18 hole second round score.  If still tied, scores for the second 9 holes (or the last 6 or 3 or 2 or 1 hole) of the second round will be used.  If a tie still arises, the first 9 holes (or the last 6 or 3 or or 1 hole) of the second round will be used.  If necessary, the first round will then be treated in the same way until a decision is reached.

Nothing about a coin flip.

They play 2 matches every day.  Matches run from Friday through Sunday.  32 matches and 16 on Friday, 8 and 4 on Saturday and semis and finals on Sunday.

[Glenn Spencer]

Wow, I would have lost a lot of money if someone wanted to bet me that this was going on at a REAL tourament.

[AndrewB]

1.  Go to the best back 9.  If that is also a tie
2.  Last 6.....
3.  Last 3
4.  Last 1
5.  Flip a coin

Except for that last one, that's how the NCGA decided the last spots in the qualifier for their Stroke Play Championship.  I was really surprised since I've never seen that at a "real" tournament, but it did allow me to get back to work and not take the entire day off while waiting for a possible playoff.

I'd probably be upset about it if I didn't sneak in with the very last spot at my site.

The British Mid-Am is a significant enough event that I don't think they should be matching cards ...

[Tony_Muldoon]

Semi finals just starting

1 Julien Guerrier France     01:00 PM     Mitchell Brown Australia    
2 Jamie Moul Stoke by Nayland     01:30 PM     Adam Gee
Leatherhead  


I'm going to join Mr Hutto at the final tommorrow.  Anyone know the low down on these guys?

[JohnV]

The Oregon Golf Association once had an Executive Director who wanted to have a chip-off to break the tie for the last spot in match play at the Oregon Amateur.  The volunteers there told him it didn't work that way and we had a playoff.  Fortunately he only lasted one year.