Bone's Fault??

[Jonathan McCord]

I think the player and caddy relationship is a very important one.  I always hear how Phil and Bones work so well together.  That was certainly not evident today.

How about Phil's, and Bones', decisions on 18?

What about that 3 wood punch shot from 140ish earlier in the day?  ARE YOU KIDDING ME

These are two examples of the most perplexing course management I have ever seen.  I realize the player has the last word, but who's fault are these debacles, and should Bones' have handled things differently?

[Mike_Young]

no

[John_Conley]

Yeah, it is Bones' fault that the guy he caddied for launched it off a hospitality tent.

[rjsimper]

It is never never NEVER the caddie's fault.

All decisions are up to the player and the player alone - Caddie's can give all the input they want, and some are depended on more than others, but the player has the final responsibility.

[Bob_Huntley]

Phil's decisions may well have been  the mind set of his purported  problems with the bookies in Las Vegas. An ubelievable gambling instinct that did not go well today.

Monty's second shot on 18 was something that could go into a Rod Serling's Twilight Zone highlights. His brain was taken over by aliens.

Bob

[Jonathan McCord]

Like I've said, I wish the media would have interviewed Bones, just to get a different take on the conversations between himself and Phil during crucial moments during the day.

[Mike_Young]

Like I've said, I wish the media would have interviewed Bones, just to get a different take on the conversations between himself and Phil during crucial moments during the day.

Jonothan,
And just what would Bones gained from such an interview???

[rjsimper]

Like I've said, I wish the media would have interviewed Bones, just to get a different take on the conversations between himself and Phil during crucial moments during the day.

The only way Bones steps out of the Mickelson Camp party line is if he wants off the bag...otherwise you can be certain that you will not hear him say "I wanted Phil to chip out but he wouldn't listen to me"

[Matt_Ward]

Ask yourself this -- for ALL the talk that Bones does provide to Phil -- how does he then suck his thumb on both the tee shot and second shot.

No doubt -- Phil is the guy who pulled the trigger.

It just seems Bones faded into the background when a more direct approach could have been the key for Phil to claim the title.

[Jonathan McCord]

You gentlemen all bring up great points.  However, I would just like to know if Bones tried to get Phil to take a conservative play or if Bones just said "Yeah, OK, Trust it."

What happened, happened!  I'm just saying from my prospective, it would be interesting to see if he tried to talk Phil out of either the drive or punch-out.

[Scott Coan]

PHIL, "Gimme the driver"

BONES, "Phil, you've hit 2 fairways all freaking day.  You just carved one way left on the last hole and were incredibly lucky to escape with a par.  Let's take 4-wood, make a par or at worst a bogey".

PHIL, "I really think I can pound this one down the middle, gimme the driver".

BONES, " (knowing Phil's dalliances in Vegas...) Phil, what do think the odds are of hitting this fairway with driver?"

PHIL, "Good point.  Lets just make a boring par and win this thing."

PHIL, at his post-victory press-conference, "I really need to thank Bones for talking me out of hitting driver on 18.  It took a lot of guts for him to step up but he did the job that I pay him to do.  He's the best caddy on Tour".

[Matt_Ward]

Scott:

Amen.

[Tom_Doak]

When was the last time a caddie spoke up on the 72nd tee at a major championship?  Can any of you remember an example?

What do you think would have happened if Curtis Strange's caddie or Johnny Miller's caddie had spoken up to them on the 72nd tee?

What about Saturday when Ogilvy went into a funk for four holes after his caddie talked him out of going for the green on #12?  It might have saved him the championship, in hindsight ... except for the fact that Ogilvy made a couple of bogeys right after that because he was still steamed about the caddie speaking up.

[JR Potts]

For those that have played WF, is there such a thing as a boring par on 18?  Didn't seem like it to me.

[PThomas]

absolutely NOT

[Scott Coan]

When was the last time a caddie spoke up on the 72nd tee at a major championship?  Can any of you remember an example?

What do you think would have happened if Curtis Strange's caddie or Johnny Miller's caddie had spoken up to them on the 72nd tee?

What about Saturday when Ogilvy went into a funk for four holes after his caddie talked him out of going for the green on #12?  It might have saved him the championship, in hindsight ... except for the fact that Ogilvy made a couple of bogeys right after that because he was still steamed about the caddie speaking up.

Tom, do you think that Jean Van de Velve's caddie should have spoken up on the 72nd at Carnoustie?  Everyone seems to think that was the worst decision a caddy has ever made.  This one by Bones has to rank right up there.  I agree that it would take some great big cajones to make the call but if there was ever a time to make it, it was on 18 tee today.

Phil's DNA has "pound the driver down the middle" written all over the situation and at the end of the day he died on his sword.  The caddies job in that situation is to provide some independant analysis on how best to get to the house.  Phil had hit TWO fairways all day and ZERO on the back nine.  A 4-wood on 18-tee today from Phil and it's a 95% certainty that he either wins or is in a playoff tomorrow.  

Bones failed.

[CHrisB]

When was the last time a caddie spoke up on the 72nd tee at a major championship?  Can any of you remember an example?

What do you think would have happened if Curtis Strange's caddie or Johnny Miller's caddie had spoken up to them on the 72nd tee?

What about Saturday when Ogilvy went into a funk for four holes after his caddie talked him out of going for the green on #12?  It might have saved him the championship, in hindsight ... except for the fact that Ogilvy made a couple of bogeys right after that because he was still steamed about the caddie speaking up.

Tom, do you think that Jean Van de Velve's caddie should have spoken up on the 72nd at Carnoustie?  Everyone seems to think that was the worst decision a caddy has ever made.  This one by Bones has to rank right up there.  I agree that it would take some great big cajones to make the call but if there was ever a time to make it, it was on 18 tee today.

Phil's DNA has "pound the driver down the middle" written all over the situation and at the end of the day he died on his sword.  The caddies job in that situation is to provide some independant analysis on how best to get to the house.  Phil had hit TWO fairways all day and ZERO on the back nine.  A 4-wood on 18-tee today from Phil and it's a 95% certainty that he either wins or is in a playoff tomorrow.  

Bones failed.

Scott,
I think you're misreading Phil's mindset on the 72nd tee. I don't think he had the "pound driver down the middle" mindset at all, and I'm pretty sure he indicated such after the round. I think he considered hitting 4-wood off the tee, but wasn't confident that he'd hit the fairway with it, and if was going to miss the fairway, it would be better to be closer to the hole. And I'm sure that he didn't envision hitting that wayward of a tee shot with the driver.

But in the end, his tee shot didn't lose the tournament--he still could have laid up and made 4 or 5. It was the 2nd shot that lost it for him.

[Glenn Spencer]

When was the last time a caddie spoke up on the 72nd tee at a major championship?  Can any of you remember an example?

What do you think would have happened if Curtis Strange's caddie or Johnny Miller's caddie had spoken up to them on the 72nd tee?

What about Saturday when Ogilvy went into a funk for four holes after his caddie talked him out of going for the green on #12?  It might have saved him the championship, in hindsight ... except for the fact that Ogilvy made a couple of bogeys right after that because he was still steamed about the caddie speaking up.

I don't know if he was just 'talking to the press' or what, but he said the caddie did the right thing. He said he was upset that there was so much trouble by the green and he wanted to go, but the right thing was to lay-up. Don't know if he meant those words or not.

[ed_getka]

Monty's second shot on 18 was something that could go into a Rod Serling's Twilight Zone highlights. His brain was taken over by aliens.

Bob

Post of the year. I really thought after his drive on #18 he was going to win.

Not Bones' fault IMO. Tom Doak hit the nail on the head. I just can't see there being a discussion on the last hole with the tournament on the line. The golfer has to be totally commited to what he is doing.

[Brad Klein]

Tom Doak, I know of one major example of a caddie piping up under pressure. At last year's PGA Seniors at Laurel Valley, leader Jerry Pate let his caddie talk him out of going for the green in two; he laid up, pitched long, three-putted and lost by a shot.

You would have to be there in the middle of that incredible emotional vortex and you cannot believe the pressure and the intensity of the feelings all around you in a setting like that. A caddie cannot possbly go wrong by keeping quiet. They might have even have worked it all out in advance in practice rounds. But it is extremely rare for a caddie to talk a player out of doing something. Those conversations come before or after, but not during.

I talked a player into changing clubs on the 72nd hole of a U.S. Open, but he was playing for 37th place and he asked me and I damned well knew he didn't have enough club. I talked him into a 5-iron and he hit it 5-feet for birdie, but I would never have spoken up unless he had asked me, and I knew he was uncertain.

There are four rules of caddying: show up, keep up, shut up and don't pull a club out of a player's hand unless he asks for your opinion.

[Tom Zeni]

In an interview on PTI with Tony Kornheiser and Mike Wilbon, Mickelson said that "Bones" only gets "ONE" club selection each year - and it can't be outside the US. So Bones can't say anything at the British Open.

Suffice to say, it's Phil's call, and Phil's call only.

[Glenn Spencer]

Tom Doak, I know of one major example of a caddie piping up under pressure. At last year's PGA Seniors at Laurel Valley, leader Jerry Pate let his caddie talk him out of going for the green in two; he laid up, pitched long, three-putted and lost by a shot.

You would have to be there in the middle of that incredible emotional vortex and you cannot believe the pressure and the intensity of the feelings all around you in a setting like that. A caddie cannot possbly go wrong by keeping quiet. They might have even have worked it all out in advance in practice rounds. But it is extremely rare for a caddie to talk a player out of doing something. Those conversations come before or after, but not during.

I talked a player into changing clubs on the 72nd hole of a U.S. Open, but he was playing for 37th place and he asked me and I damned well knew he didn't have enough club. I talked him into a 5-iron and he hit it 5-feet for birdie, but I would never have spoken up unless he had asked me, and I knew he was uncertain.

There are four rules of caddying: show up, keep up, shut up and don't pull a club out of a player's hand unless he asks for your opinion.

Brad,

You are absolutely correct. I am just looking for your thoughts. Do you think he would listen to Pelz or Smith in that situation if the US Open was like the Ryder Cup or any other team event sporting event? It seems like these two are a team and it really does show that the caddie has no say. I understan job security and the world in general, but I am still surprised by how that all played out.

[Glenn Spencer]

In an interview on PTI with Tony Kornheiser and Mike Wilbon, Mickelson said that "Bones" only gets "ONE" club selection each year - and it can't be outside the US. So Bones can't say anything at the British Open.

Suffice to say, it's Phil's call, and Phil's call only.

I saw that myself and I would bet the farm he was being facetious.

[Scott Coan]

Scott,
I think you're misreading Phil's mindset on the 72nd tee. I don't think he had the "pound driver down the middle" mindset at all, and I'm pretty sure he indicated such after the round. I think he considered hitting 4-wood off the tee, but wasn't confident that he'd hit the fairway with it, and if was going to miss the fairway, it would be better to be closer to the hole. And I'm sure that he didn't envision hitting that wayward of a tee shot with the driver.

But in the end, his tee shot didn't lose the tournament--he still could have laid up and made 4 or 5. It was the 2nd shot that lost it for him.

Chris, I disagree.  His mindset was that I will pound the driver and if I miss I'll be that much closer to the green.  I'll escape just like I've been doing all day.

By hitting driver he brought the trees into play, which gave him the chance to gamble yet again and try to cut a 3 iron around the trees.  The only reason he was able to get any club on that second shot was because he hit the driver so wide that he was on the trampled down grass.  So it was the driver that enabled him to take the second gamble.

Had he taken 4-wood off the tee and executed the same quick swing   he most likely hangs up in the 6-inch cabbage, forcing him to lay up and wedge on.  If he gets it up-and-down he's the US Open Champ.  Bogey and he's in a playoff.

[Ed Tilley]

A number of people have compared Phil's brain meltdown yesterday with Jean Van de Velde's in the Open at Carnoustie. People say that VdV's second at Carnoustie was monumentally stupid. However, I think he actually played the SMART shot but suffered the biggest stroke of bad luck ever seen in a Major:

People were saying that he should have laid up. His thought process was: 'I need 6 to win - the only way I don't make 6 or better is by hitting it OOB at the back or in the rough short of the burn'. He hit his 2 iron as he couldn't reach the OOB but would clear the burn. As he said - if he hits it in the stands he gets a free drop and makes a comfortable bogey. The problem was he hit the stand and bounced back 40 yards over the burn into a shocker lie. The rest is history. Phil's second shot was way more stupid than VdV's.

Personally I am completely gutted for Monty. He played fantastically today. I almost hit the ceiling when that putt went in on 17 - I thought he was going to win.