News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.

Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Architect for a year
« on: June 07, 2006, 11:46:48 PM »
Hypothetical: If you could have access to any course in the world and you could be an architect for a year – which courses would you choose to do redevelopment work on ? why ? and what parts of it would you change ?
Logged

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2006, 12:56:46 AM »
Pine Valley - because of how much better it would be when finished clearing.

or Bethpage Black to redo the greens / adding character.

Turning a Doak 2 into a 7 - There is a muni that I am currently working on a rerouting / complete redo.  It could be excellent, but I see the development compromises coming...  
Logged
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2006, 06:50:53 AM »
Ballybunion [New]......its just too good of a site to be not all it could be.
Logged
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2006, 06:56:52 AM »
Cobbs Creek, the long neglected Philadelphia muni of Hugh Wilson heritage and 1916 vintage. It was once the busiest muni in the USA. I will return there soon to see its current condition which I understand is improved somewhat over recent years. New management is making an effort but major work needs to be done.
Logged
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2006, 08:03:03 AM »
Quote from: paul cowley on June 08, 2006, 06:50:53 AM
Ballybunion [New]......its just too good of a site to be not all it could be.

Paul C

What would you do to Ballybunion (New) to begin with ?

Staying on the Ireland theme...I would start with the pond on # 17 at Royal County Down - and just fill it in !!

I'd then move over to Royal Portrush and do something on holes 15 thru 18 - after "Calamity" it's such an anti-climax to a great course.




Logged

Ryan Farrow

Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2006, 04:19:02 PM »
I would love to re-design Oakmont East golf course. The place is a complete dump and it is associated with one of the best courses in the world. It is a dream of mine to someday create an affordable public course that can be comparable to its neighbor.
Logged

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2006, 04:33:44 PM »
Ryan, Oakmont East is almost quirky enough to deserve to live forever.

Almost.

 :)

Mostly it's a decent parking lot for the big events at Oakmont.
Logged
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Ryan Farrow

Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2006, 05:18:54 PM »
George, are you saying its soooooo bad that its good?
Logged

Mark_F

Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2006, 05:28:51 PM »
Royal Melbourne West.

I'd get rid of or better integrate those repulsive mounds forward left of the green, then add some character to the green so a 'good starting hole" becomes a good hole, period.

Do something to 2,4 and 12 - they are par 4 and 1/4s, now.

I'd clear out some of the trees on the left side of 11, then turn the area those inept mounds and bunkers on the corner of the dogleg into something truly befitting the course.
Logged

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2006, 05:31:33 PM »
Ryan -

More that it's so weird that it's almost worth preserving.

Almost. But not quite.

If you came up with a good routing for that land, I'd certainly take a look and maybe give you the thumbs up.

As for the current course, I can't think of a single course with so many weird holes. Multiple drivable blind par 4s, uphill, downill, dogleg. Just flat out bizarre. I'm still disappointed that I haven't dragged JohnV out there, though part of me does fear he might not talk to me ever again afterward if I did.... :)
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 05:32:49 PM by George Pazin »
Logged
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2006, 05:34:53 PM »
The Eden.  Heck, even I can fill in a pond.  Then I'd turn it over to Paul Turner.

Mike
« Last Edit: June 08, 2006, 05:35:49 PM by Bogey_Hendren »
Logged
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2006, 05:35:47 PM »
As to the original question, my first choice would be to head out to Nebraska and find some of that land that Dick Daley emailed me a photo of.

But, my wife might miss me if I were gone for a year. So I'd probably settle for refining my home muni, North Park GC. Clear out a few new trees they added (not a factor now, but will be in a few years), maybe add some strategic bunkers, maybe add a little contour to a few greens. It's a wonderful walk as is, it could just use a little TLC.
Logged
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Jesse Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2006, 06:39:36 PM »
Longaberger..Nuff said
Logged

Scott Coan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2006, 06:54:12 PM »
Do a Bethpage on Donald Ross's Ponkapoag, one of the first public golf courses in the country.

Not as far-fatched as it may seem as a 25-year lease is currently up for grabs...

http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2006/05/31/news/news08.txt
Logged

Ryan Farrow

Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2006, 07:00:49 PM »
George, I can defiantly understand what you are saying. Let’s see if we can agree on something about the course. The par 3's are pretty neat eh?

If you look at some aerial photos it looks like there is decent room to expand. Some holes there are in need of some serious breathing room and I feel if the elevation changes are used correctly a really special minimalist course can be built there.

I am just stumped on whether or not to turn the course into a more links style such as present and past Oakmont or to weave through some seriously wooded areas. Maybe a mix of both?

I also wonder if some views of the Allegheny River can be opened up through some tree removal.

I might start working on some plans and a new routing so I will be ready in the future.

Logged

Kevin Pallier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2006, 10:28:24 PM »
Quote from: Mark Ferguson on June 08, 2006, 05:28:51 PM
Royal Melbourne West.

I'd get rid of or better integrate those repulsive mounds forward left of the green, then add some character to the green so a 'good starting hole" becomes a good hole, period.

Do something to 2,4 and 12 - they are par 4 and 1/4s, now.

I'd clear out some of the trees on the left side of 11, then turn the area those inept mounds and bunkers on the corner of the dogleg into something truly befitting the course.

Mark

I think I agree with most of what you said  ;D  esp:on the 1st and three P5's (?) at RMW - interested as to why you didn't say anything about the other P5 at # 15 ?
Logged

Glenn Spencer

Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2006, 11:33:07 PM »
Quote from: Jesse Jones on June 08, 2006, 06:39:36 PM
Longaberger..Nuff said

The ultimate second to this lovely comment.
Logged

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2006, 02:06:24 AM »
Kevin,

I’d prefer to work on something that has reasonable public access. Either totally public, or public with members. I would have no desire to work on a course that is already great, but would prefer to raise the level of local golf for the average golfer.

I would work on The Coast GC in Sydney. This course is only a few miles up the road from NSWGC, sharing the same coastline & although it will never be as good as NSWGC, it could be better without too much work. The unfortunate part is that it is going the other way, as they seem determined to ruin the course.

It would be nice to put something back into local golf.
Logged

Kenny Lee Puckett

Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2006, 04:01:17 AM »
I would love to study Carne and then return home to build in the NE area of CT.

JWK
Logged

Mark_F

Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #19 on: June 09, 2006, 05:13:19 AM »
Quote from: Kevin Pallier on June 08, 2006, 10:28:24 PM
Mark
I think I agree with most of what you said  ;D  esp:on the 1st and three P5's (?) at RMW - interested as to why you didn't say anything about the other P5 at # 15 ?

Kevin,

Simple, really.

I can't remember the hole.  :D
Logged

Andrew Thomson

Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2006, 05:40:55 AM »
gee you really know your stuff mate
Logged

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2006, 11:42:57 AM »
This is VERY hypothetical because in all cases it would take more than a year of cajoling the members before you got to do anything to a course.

Paul C:  Ballybunion was interviewing architects recently to work on the Cashen.  I looked at it but I honestly could not figure out how to improve the routing -- the size of the dunes really limits the possibilities, it's a lot tougher problem than I thought.  I've got the topos if you want them.

Sean A:  Bruce Hepner was trying your goal as well -- the club wasn't interested.
Logged

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2006, 06:06:57 PM »


Thanks for a brilliant day Sean ;D ;D ;D
Logged
Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark_F

Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2006, 09:35:29 PM »
Quote from: Andrew Thomson on June 09, 2006, 05:40:55 AM
gee you really know your stuff mate

Thommo,

Presumably that acerbic wisecrack was meant for me?

Granted, the reason is probably too simple for anyone educated at Scotch to comprehend, but it is because it has been a long time since I played RM West, whereas I have walked it (the composite) many times in recent years.
Logged

Andrew Thomson

Re:Architect for a year
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2006, 11:18:56 AM »
alzheimers is indeed a terrible disease.  ;D
Logged
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up