[ed_getka]

Mike,
   I suppose that is Latin for ass-kissing, which isn't even remotely funny. I happened to have liked the course and it most certainly has to be one of the best courses in the area. Plainfield is certainly no less than an 8 in any rational person's opinion. Spyglass doesn't even sniff an 8 IMO, but I don't like that type of course, so I am willing to let others believe it is.
    Of the courses you listed that I have played I will choose Fishers and North Berwick over SE every time, but the rest I would not say are demonstrably better courses. Fishers and NB aren't either, but those two are personal favorites.

[Jason Topp]

Okay, truce, please.

What hole did you guys enjoy most?
What hole did you enjoy least?

Most:

I enjoyed the par four with the wide fairway with the big hump in the middle, with the left side providing an approach up the length of the green and the right side providing a tough angle.  (It looks like 10 from the yardage book).

It was only on the third time around the course that I figured out the significant advantage of going left, even though it is pretty obvious if you think about it a bit.  

I also really liked the uphill par four with the wash angling in from the left.  Once I understood the hole, I knew I had to hit driver perfect to keep it in play, but did not want to hit 3 wood because it would have left me 200 yards.

Both of these holes were real interesting tee shots despite real wide fairways.  I think it is tough to creat longer par fours that are interesting while having wide fairways, particularly if they are uphill.  Both of these holes fit that mould.

Least:

The caddie described three holes as playing pretty identical off the tee.  I think it was 9, 11 and 16.  I really liked each of these holes individually, with the 16th the best of the group, but would argue they were a bit repetitive, particularly with the tee shot on 4, which plays similar even though the hole is different.  I would have liked to have seen a left to right downhill hole.  I cannot recall one.  

I thought the 19th was the best par three on the course, with the green falling slightly away, it was pretty tricky to keep it on the green and get it close.  I would have tried to put that one in the rotation on the course, perhaps even as the finisher.

[David Kelly]

Then again, I've neither seen nor played the golf course.  Looks like a blast and I particularly like the integration of the holes.  I would love to golf my ball there.  

Then what was the point of your post other than a weak attempt to try to embarrass Ed?

[Tom Huckaby]

Shivas:  a truce has been declared on that issue.  But to answer, you are giving me thoughts I don't have.  I never said either CP or SH are particularly high-handicapper friendly, I just said they aren't nearly as high-handicapper-unfriendly overall as is Stone Eagle.  And this applies only to the approach shots.

So OK,

What holes did I enjoy most?

#4 - I liked the fact people were bitching that there's no way you can keep it in the fairway, and I did quite easily - you just aim at 18 green...

What holes do you enjoy the least?
#10 - it's just a bit too much for my tastes.  That is, too rolling, too surrounded by trouble, too much all in one hole.


TH

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

This thread has found it way to a TE Paul/Mucci status without their particiaption. I think that speaks poorly of our abilty to stay on task or subject. Shall we say the South won and wait to next year for the north. I am looking forward to Bandon Dunes or wherever the matches are played.

[Tom Huckaby]

This thread has found it way to a TE Paul/Mucci status without their particiaption. I think that speaks poorly of our abilty to stay on task or subject. Shall we say the South won and wait to next year for the north. I am looking forward to Bandon Dunes or wherever the matches are played.

Aw heck, at least here the issue debated ad nauseam was at least part of the initial post!  

And are you SURE the South won?  Check the laser range-finder thread.  

In any case, one thing's for sure, I join you in looking forward to next year, wherever it shall take place.

TH

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Huck, I cannot believe you are looking to a technicality of range finder use to scrap the results. Tommy may be the Emperor, but as our team captain I doubt he will can the Victory over a legal device. I pity the poor fool who plays you in your next golf match. He/she will eat some dust.

[Mike Hendren]

Then again, I've neither seen nor played the golf course.  Looks like a blast and I particularly like the integration of the holes.  I would love to golf my ball there.  

Then what was the point of your post other than a weak attempt to try to embarrass Ed?

David, I am very fond of Ed Getka and would never attempt to embarrass him - not that I am qualified to do so.  An "8" on the Doak scale is mighty tall cotton, that's all, and might suggest that this is one of the top twenty golf courses built in the U. S. in the past 50 years.  

Kindest regards,

Mike

[Tom Huckaby]

Well of course I would never stoop that low... but he did say all uses of such meant DQ....

 

Oh hell, of course the Putter stays south.  It is fun to have this as a fall-back though.

TH

[ed_getka]

Just lost a long post, so here is the short version.
  Favorite hole:
       #18 tough finisher, but playable by all
      Runners up:
           #10 par4  Partially obstructed tee view by rock outcroppings, slightly hogbacked fairway, well protected green, especially to a back pin.
         #13 par 5 Something to think about on every shot.
          #6 I like the uphill approach shot, although I might like it even better as a dogleg downhill to #7 green.

  Least favorite:
         #14 tee shot where you run out of fairway from the back tee with driver. I like the approach shot.
        Runners up:
              Similarity of the shortish downhill par 4's.
               I would have preferred a greater variety of looks to the par 3's.

One feature I found really cool is on one of the short par 4's, where if you play out to the right off the tee the approach shot leaves you a view through the green between some rock outcroppings where the green feels like it is on the edge of a cliff. Tough to pull the trigger all the way to the hole and not bail right (for me at least).

Jason,
    Good pick up on the short downhill 4's all moving R to L.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ed - great stuff - man you are very perceptive about all this.

Some bones to pick though (fully realizing that these are just opinions and reasonable minds can and will differ):

#10 - as you see I put it as my least fave - and what's interesting is I'd say that pretty much for exactly the reasons you list it as a fave!  I just find it to be too much.  Does the three X's our group made that Monday round hold no sway with you?  That is one bitch of an approach, no matter where the tee shot ends up... and that's another thing I really didn't get... what does it matter where the tee shot ends up?  Down on the right loses some distance, true, but not that much... and it's still a killer tough shot coming in from the left...  Educate me about this one, brother.  I don't hate the hole, far from it... But it's one I'd fear far more than enjoy, on a return visit.

#14 - wouldn't only the biggest bombers reach the chasm off the tee, except with a pretty big pull?  That is, it's reachable on the left, not so from center to right... I felt no need to hit less than driver there, that's for sure.  But the big bombers would... but since when do they count?  

TH

[Jason Topp]

#10 - as you see I put it as my least fave - and what's interesting is I'd say that pretty much for exactly the reasons you list it as a fave!  I just find it to be too much.  Does the three X's our group made that Monday round hold no sway with you?  That is one bitch of an approach, no matter where the tee shot ends up... and that's another thing I really didn't get... what does it matter where the tee shot ends up?  Down on the right loses some distance, true, but not that much... and it's still a killer tough shot coming in from the left...  Educate me about this one, brother.  I don't hate the hole, far from it... But it's one I'd fear far more than enjoy, on a return visit.

#14 - wouldn't only the biggest bombers reach the chasm off the tee, except with a pretty big pull?  That is, it's reachable on the left, not so from center to right... I felt no need to hit less than driver there, that's for sure.  But the big bombers would... but since when do they count?  

TH

Tom - you are wrong about 10 and right about 14.    I listed 10 as a favorite as well.

On 10, the approach is difficult from either side of the fairway, but much, much easier from the left, and the possibility of an x is pretty remote from there.  From the right, the green is difficult to hit, but there is bailout room to the left.

What did you think of the par five around the big bunker?  I have now played it the same way every time -drive it in the bunker, lob wedge out, lay up, pitch, so I really cannot judge the hole.  I like the pitch shot to that front pin.  That was a tough one.  

[John_Cullum]

Least favorite hole-number 4. The tee shot is too deceptive. I would venture most better players put their ball in the water off of the tee if they are not forwarned. Losing your golf ball adds insult to the injury. Then the approach from down in the hole is severely uphill and blind, and if you go long, you have no chance at getting your chip close.

Favorite hole- I really can't say. All of the holes blend together and have a similar look, so it's hard to pick a favorite. I like the par 5 with the deep bunker right and the ravine in front of the green.

On the Doak scale, a 6. No way it makes the "special trip to see it" test. I don't think it passes the 100 mile test either.

[Tom Huckaby]

I think it's cool how opinions so far are all over the map.. one man's fave is another's un-fave... Sarge and I disagree about #4, it seems to be me against the world so far re #10.  MacKenzie apparently loved this about his courses... thus so should Doak.  

Re 10 - Jason - I can't see how coming in from the left helps much, other than you don't lose the distance down the hill one does if one goes too far right.  The bunkers and rocks are pretty evil on the left side of that green... as they are on the right... seriously, why is the angle better from the left?  If I'm a caddie there, I tell my guy to just smash it down the middle and don't sweat either side.  What am I missing?

Sarge - re 4, well, it is a bitch of a tee shot for sure, and perhaps I am making too little of the trouble because I was forewarned.  But man I could see the hole banks severely left... let's just say I wasn't doubting the caddie when he said hit it at 18 green.  That looked correc to me.  But for another reason I do like it though:  it gives the straight-shooter off the tee an advantage he gets few other places on the course.  Gotta have at least a few holes like that, no?

TH

[Scott_Burroughs]

Huck,

On Monday, our group had 3 pars and a birdie to that back pin on #10.  None of us was more than 15 feet away after our approaches.  It's still a butt-puckering pin location, so we must have played out of our a$$e$.  

Ed,
As for #14, most mortals can hit driver on that hole (from tips), provided you keep it on right side of fairway.  Based on the yardage book, the end of the fairway on the right side is only ~105 yards out on an uphill 415 yarder.  Staying safe with a 3-wood, one actually might have to hit a mid-to-long iron in (a shock!), which on some courses doesn't happen much.

[Tom Huckaby]

Scott:

That is fine playing on 10.  My report is this, and of course you were there for the first round... in 8 tries...

2 bogeys (JB Mon, me Tue)
One double (you Mon)
Five X's (me Mon, Peter Mon, Benham Tue, Pieracci Tue, Getka Tue).

I'd have to guess that your group Monday played it exceptionally well, and that feat won't be duplicated often.

In any case, it's not that it's killer difficult or anything... I just put it as my least fave because it's too much, and because I don't see any gain to wherever one hits the tee shot.  If someone educates me as to the true benefits of anything other than just staying between the rocks, I will remove it from least fave.  

TH

[rjsimper]

Re: 14 - I disagree-

I hit a good 3wood that was on the percieved centerline of the hole...drawing a bit...and it found the left portion of where the hazard begins.  I've got no problem with a diagonal hazard, and yes, my ball would have been fine had I played out to the right more, but give me this dilemma with my Driver, not my 3wood.  Lengthen the hole 20 yards and I think my view changes.

[Scott_Burroughs]

Huck,

I had a par on Sunday's round (your days are one day ahead, just like the dates on my pics in the other thread), remember my up-and-down from the rocks left of the green?  From our scorecard (which I have in front of me and which you kept score), your score for #10 is listed as a 6 (you have an X listed elsewhere on the card, but not here).  Don't know if that was for hndcp purposes or you simply 'parred' your 2nd tee shot.

Ryan,

I said "mortals".    Remember, you said your caddie far underestimated your length.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ryan - you're one of the big hitters we mention.  I can see that for you, the chasm is an issue.  But man, 310 out center/right... that's not an issue for most of the golf world.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Huck,

I had a par on Sunday's round (your days are one day ahead, just like the dates on my pics in the other thread), remember my up-and-down from the rocks left of the green?  From our scorecard (which I have in front of me and which you kept score), your score for #10 is listed as a 6 (you have an X listed elsewhere on the card, but not here).  Don't know if that was for hndcp purposes or you simply 'parred' your 2nd tee shot.

Scott - right you are - I mistakenly assumed you had hit one into the rocks off the tee and that "par" was a double - yout first tee shot was amazingly found, I remember now.  You and JB both go on a line 10 yards left of mine, mine is the only one that doesn't get found.  That was amazing in its own right.    

As for me, I don't think I played out the hole, did I?  I sure recall picking up.  If not, I know I wanted to!  6 is likely there just for ESC purposes.  X means 6 for me.

In any case, it matters not.  I still think it's a pretty tough golf hole with not much going on on the tee shot - that is, no benefit to either side.  I could be wrong about that though.  If so, like I say, I'll remove it from least fave.

TH

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom, not that it matters but I had a par on 10. You accidently picked my ball up along the left rough line. I hit like an 8 or 9 iron on and two putted from 15 feet. That fairway had us looking for balls for 15 minutes. Infact that is my least favorite hole because of all the problems we had with a semiblind landing area that tossed balls in all directions including off the course. We had no clue who was ok and who was a goner based on how the tee shot looked from the tee.

[astavrides]

just wanted to support Huck on this second matter on this thread in which the world is thus far against him...

10 was my least favorite hole too.  but it could be because i dont like semi-blind tee shots, and because i played the hole badly both days.  

(cant support huck on the tight green entrance thing though.  anyway, truce).

i'll figure my most favorite hole later.

[rjsimper]

286 up the center isn't really THAT far...with the desert adjustment it probably plays 270 and with the roll to the left, even less than that.  Just tough for me to think that the truly safe play that takes the chasm out would be a 3 or 4 iron, or a hybrid, on a hole that goes what - 450?  (I don't recall, and the yardage book is home)

I didn't take notice on this, but what is the carry distance from the tee (not for a tee ball, but for the short hitter's second strike)...any chance they have to lay 2 behind the chasm, leaving 180 yards to the green and almost making it into a par 6?

[Tom Huckaby]

JB - well then hush my mouth, see how wrong I am.  As you can tell, after the horrifics of that tee shot, I wasn't really watching that closely what you two blokes did.  Hell Peter P./s likely to come in and tell me he holed his shot for an eagle.   As for picking up your ball, well... given the line yours took off the tee, my assumption was there was no earthly way it could be anything but a ball left there by a previous group.  You did get a rather fortuitous bounce.  

I will say the 2nd time playing (and this will be the case forevermore) that tee shot is no issue.  It was that first time because the caddie gave us a VERY VERY VERY incorrect line.  There is absolutely no reason to flirt with the left side.  He had us aiming over the rocks and that to me is lunacy.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

286 up the center isn't really THAT far...with the desert adjustment it probably plays 270 and with the roll to the left, even less than that.  Just tough for me to think that the truly safe play that takes the chasm out would be a 3 or 4 iron, or a hybrid, on a hole that goes what - 450?  (I don't recall, and the yardage book is home)

I didn't take notice on this, but what is the carry distance from the tee (not for a tee ball, but for the short hitter's second strike)...any chance they have to lay 2 behind the chasm, leaving 180 yards to the green and almost making it into a par 6?

Ryan - the hole is pretty significantly uphill.  And Scott has the book and thus can confirm, but I thought he said it was over 300 going center or right.  In any case, make it 286 uphill and that's still out of my range...

I can see it's a big issue for you.  I just still think you're gonna be in a pretty small minority.

As for the high cappers laying up, that will have to happen from time to time.  Tough hole.  But heck, it's one of few truly tough tee shots, so what's the big issue?

Stavros - thanks.  Supporting me would seem to put one in the minority at the very least.  As for the dead issue, well... reasonable minds will differ.  

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