TKP-V: Event Report, Course Impressions, Next Year?

[Jason Topp]

I still want to know what others besides Tom H think about the playability of the course, particularly the approach shots.  But, Huck, you've already posted 30 times that you think the approaches are severe, you don't have to keep reiterating it.

I will say that we enjoyed the challenge of working with this site, instead of just another boring plot of sand dunes.  And you are overlooking the good parts of the site -- it's a freaking spectacular place, and I believed if we could get a playable golf course on it, that would trump the difficult parts.

I thought is was extremely playable on approach shots.  Because the grass is a bit longer than other courses, it really does not run that far and there is a bail out area on every hole.  I was hitting my irons horribly and never felt intimidated in 3 rounds, unless I was going for a tucked pin.

The bunkers will definitely chew anyone and spit them out if you get in the wrong spot.  I had a couple of those in both rounds on this trip.  For example, buried under the lip on 18 was a little rough.

  To me the questionable part of the course is the greens.  Very severe undulations with bermuda grass and the grain running downhill.  I think one needs to play the course several times to know the best spot to set up one's approach.  If you hit it to the wrong spot, there are many times that a two putt is nearly impossible.  Over the first few holes of my first trip around the course, I did not like them.  I enjoyed them more with more experience.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Tom D,

My understanding is that you just saw Baxter's Black Mesa.  Care to contrast BM and Stone Eagle?  They seem to me similar pieces of property.  

What would you have done differently with Black Mesa?  Baxter, what would you have done differently with Stone Eagle?

JC

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I was like most of us the first day in thinking around the 12th to 15th hole, I started on the back, the course might be a bit over the top. I had a much different feeling the second day when playing fresh and not suffering from the heat. I really like the set up and green complexes. You always seemed to get to think about wher eyou wanted to go with the ball off the tee.I found it to be very much of a Doak course in the number of opportunities to feed the fall to the hole and play the contours. I think you learn where not to be after 4 or 5 rounds there. There are some places around the greens you flat do not want to be. The first hole is a great opener. I love the drive on 4 and must have asked Tommy about the waterfalls 3 times during the hole. It was fun to watch him twitch. I felt the par 4's both short and long are the strength of the course. They have great driving options and a nice variety of incredibly interesting green complexes. I would like number 7 to be a long par 3 like 250 or a short short drivable par 4. I think the down hill par 3 there is not as good a hole as the options sitting there and available. What do you think Tom? I found the course to be shortish even off the backs and as you guys know I am just average off the tee these days, 260 to 280. Of course I did not see it during the season and what wind differences might be in the cards.
 I am assuming it is a Members course and not trying to get USGA events etc. therefore it is plenty long enough in that case. I found the cart paths to be what was really over the top. You would lose your sense of time and space wandering around trying to find the next tee o rthe green in some cases. All in all, this is a very very good course which should be considered the top course in the Palm Springs area. I have played both Gallery courses and Stone Canyon in Tucson during the last month. I like this course better than any of the 3 and like all of them very much. Stone Canyon and Gallary North are in somewhat similar types of terrain.

[Jason Topp]

I really liked this course.  I preferred it to the Palms.  I'll be interested to hear the split between the group, and I know I heard ahead of time that many preferred the Palms to the Plantation, but while I preferred the green complexes a bit more at the Palms, the Plantation routing and corridors was superior.
 

Ryan - As you know, I liked the Palms better than the Plantation (although I need to split hairs to distinguish them).  I played so poorly at the Palms that my perspective is a bit skewed, but here are my thoughts:

1.  The par threes at the Palms were terrific and reminded me of Australian short holes, with the primary difference being the soggy greens (no doubt necessitated by hot weather and bent grass).  The 2nd was a terrific 170 yard shot in which a bailout right was rewarded with a difficult flop shot.  The 5th was a good long par three with a difficult swale to the left and the 8th is the rare example of a very interesting uphill par three using a diagonal creek with plenty of room to bail out for the timid.  On the back, the par threes are back to back and consist of a tightly bunkered short hole, followed by a 225 yard par three running the opposite direction.

2.  To me, the Palms provides much more interesting decisions off the tee on the longer holes.  Various holes use creeks, palm trees and bushes and are of an appropriate length that an agressive play results in a manageable shot to the green, whereas a conservative play results in a much more difficult play.  By contrast, the landing areas at the Plantation were extremely wide, and I felt less need to challenge hazards off the tee.

3.  I prefer creeks to lakes, and, while neither course uses much in the way of water hazards, I thought the creek was used (or constructed) brilliantly at the Palms on holes 6-9.

4.  I think the challenging small greens at the Palms are close to the ideal.  One must be very precise, but one will have some type of shot if the shot is missed, usually a very difficult pitch to a small target with the option of just hitting a safe shot if necessary.

5.  Unlike many, I like a course to have one or two tight penal holes such as are found at the 3rd and 4th.  I think one of the skills a player should have is the ability to put it in play with severe consequences.  I hate a steady diet of such holes, and 3 is pretty wide.  

6.  The Palms had more of a quirk factor, with par 34 on the front, 36 on the back and 700 yards difference in lenth.  

7.  There was more shade at the Palms.  

All a matter of taste, but of course, I am right.  

[Mike Benham]

The funny thing (ok, maybe it is one of the funny things about this video) is that I completely forgot that Evan is lefthanded, I couldn't quite figure out why he was taking his stance in that manner until I remembered that fact.

Good stuff ... and good to see Evan laugh ...

So Evan Fleisher, struggling mightily with his game all day long, joins Mark Arata, Jason Topp, and myself for one final hole, the 19th, to put an end to the suffering.

His ball comes to rest long of the green right against a basketball-sized rock bordering the grass.  No shot whatsoever (as you can see in this image...he's left handed, so he is aiming directly away from the hole)

It's the 19th hole and we're out there to have some fun, so he reaches into the bag of tricks and comes up with the "hit it directly into the rock to ricochet it onto the green directly behind him"

See for yourselves... (click the image to play)

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom B:  I think #11 is the smallest green on the course.  But we did not build small greens precisely because of Huck's complaint, that anything which missed the green would be DOA.  This is why a green like the third (a shortish par 3) is large and undulating rather than small and flat.

I'm still not buying Huck's argument.  I think he was tired and playing like hell and totally misjudging the distances of the approaches.  There's hardly a green on the course that's really tight if you are landing at the front edge -- you just can't attack back pins without taking a chance, ESPECIALLY if you don't have a good feel for the right club.

Also, regarding the forced carries, which tees were you guys playing?  There are some good carries from the back, but there aren't so many from the white tees where the oldest member plays from.

Tom D:  of course I don't expect YOU to ever buy my argument - this is one of your newest babies after all - and I also forgive you for not reading all of my wonderful prose here.  But I did say - several times, as I am wont to do - that I played it once very poorly and very hot and tired, but also once feeling fine, not hot at all, and playing damn near as well as I can. Messrs.  Bernhardt and Burroughs can attest to the first round, Messrs. Benham, Pieracci and Getka can attest to second.  I fully admit some of the comments I made after round one would have been the result of frustration.  But these comments today are the result of a balanced assessment, made after nearly 8 hours in the car with nothing else to do but think about it.  I also had no problems with judging distances - we had fine caddies - nor do I think that would be a big deal for the high cappers either.  It's the death to the sides that would ruin their fun.

So I remain steadfast - due to the nature of the site, the green sites are too severe for the higher handicapper.  Hey, that's a pretty small nit.

As for forced carries, I saw none that would be a problem. That's not my issue at all.  The tee shots are a joy for one and all, fun and thought-provoking and doable and ego-buildiing in places.

TH

[Tom Renli]

Based on the number of posts, I must be the only one that came back to a zillion emails and vmails. My thoughts are as follows:

* Preferred Palms over Plantation.  I enjoyed the quirkiness, the back nine, the 17th.  
* Losing 12 and 11 or something like that at Plantation could have admittedly impacted me, difficult to recall all the holes at the Plantation - seemed to run together.
* Seeing Stone Eagle for a second time, the elevation change still surprised me.
* The defense at SE is in the elevation change and complexity of the greens and not the length nor severity.
* Except for 18, if you are playing the correct tees, it does not force driver on you.  Seemed more like your choice off the tee to play a second from 120/130 or 160/170.
* On Monday I hit driver only 5 times which contributed to not making a double.
* Contrasting it with The Gallery, especially the South from the tips at 7400, it forces you to hit driver which makes it more servere off the tee.  The width seems similar on the two courses.
* SE is not nearly as severe off the tee as a number of other desert courses.
* SE is the heaviest mix of desert and mountain golf I have seen.  BM felt more severe off the tee and more canyon vs mountain.
* The three shots that made me tighten up are the 2nd @ 5 (no bargain bailing to the right for your third), 2nd @ 10 and drive on 18 at SE.
* The variety of the par 5s is great.
* 17 and 18 seem like 4.5 pars.
* If forced to find a criticism, 1, 2 and maybe 10; seperately 9,11 and maybe 16 seemed redundant.
* Go stand on the 7th tee once the sun goes behind the mountain and pan across from the mountain right to left and recognize how fortunate you are to be there.

* Standing O for Tommy and Company - well organized, great group and high quality of golf.  
Thanks, Tom

[DMoriarty]

Anyone who judges Stone Eagle based on Sunday afternoon's death march is off their rockers, especially if they were feeling the heat.  

George, to answer your question to Ryan,  a high handicapper can try to play toward safety if the course allows for it.  So for example the fifth hole at Stone Eagle has a deep bunker and a wash close to the green on the left, but no such death on the right.  With relative safety right, a high handicapper would be foolish to be shooting at the pin with a long iron or fairway wood.  Aim right  and a miss left might turn out well.  In other words, play to the middle of the corridors, rather than to the middle of the greens.  

Speaking of miss-hits,  I've read your percentages of where your ball goes, and I'd have to say that either you are leaving something off or you miss-hit the ball much better than I do.  Direction isnt the main problem with my miss-hits.  Distance is.  My miss-hits are fat or skulled or smother-hooked or topped or chunked.  Occasionally they are "toe-shanked" (my speciality) but those tend to lose most their distance.  If I slice my irons it is generally a pretty weak slice.  I can hook them for distance, but that isnt really my strength.   Sure I can miss 20 or 30 yards off line, but I am just not good enough to consistently hit my 180 yard club 180 yards and 30 yards off line.

Further I think more hacks are like me-- bad contact and a loss of distance.  I am just not good enough to consistantly miss my 180 yard club 30 yards off line.  So I start to get suspicious whenever a lower handicapper (like Huckaby) starts to tell me that a course is wide enough for him but not wide enough for me.  Usually it is only the low handicappers who are good enough to hit it 30 yards off line and full distance.
________________________________

Tom H.,  I've read what you've generally said (and said and said) about the approaches and I think it might be a good idea if you actually find your yardage book before you keep on.   I spray the ball with the best of them, and have had a few horrid rounds at Stone Eagle, yet I just dont see it your way at all.  

So how about some specifics?  Just exactly where are the approaches too tight?   Which holes?  Surely you are not suggesting that all holes need to have 360 degrees of easy recoveries for all misses are you?  

Also, I for one would say that Stone Eagle is at least as forgiving off the tee as Rustic Canyon, maybe even moreso.  Rustic has OB very much in play off the tee on a number of holes (1,2,3,12,13) and has the wash or severe native in play off the tee on many of the others (5,6,7,11,14,15,16,17,18.)  There are also a number of fairly substantial forced carries.  The playing corridors at Rustic are plenty wide, but missing them is almost guaranteed death, and because of the angled drives and preferred positions, the native comes into play much more than one might expect.  

Back to Stone Eagle . . . there may be many legitimate criticisms of the course, but I dont think that narrow approaches is one of them.  

[Pete Lavallee]

First off many thanks to Tommy for organizing the best KP yet! JC did a great job with the scoring and David was able to balance the books; I hope. It was nice to see old friends and there was a great turnout of newbies as well.

I completely agree that Sunday's afternoon round will inevitably jaundice anyone's view of the course somewhat. Those were  easily the most brutal conditions I've experienced and have been going to Palm Springs in June for 15 years now.   (I think we really need a sunglass guy frowning and sweating for this application).

I thought Stone Eagle had what most great golf courses have: pleasurable excitement. Lots of fun shots from the tee and into greens. Excellent short game options exist around the greens. The putting surfaces were varied in size and shape with lots of unique curls and rolls that could make sinking your average 30 footer the highlight of the day. There was also just enough hidden mountain slope to complicate things for the better player, who hates to be confused by such trickery.

The major drawback was the cart rides to the next tee; It would be very interesting to try and walk the property, to both get a better feel for the overall relationship of the holes and to eliminate snaking your way to the next tee. We noticed numerous walking trails from the back of the green to the next tee and it just might be doable in the winter months. Was there any consideration for making the course walkable enough to hold a college tournament for instance?

I'll have to disagree on the tightness to greens; after looking over the yardage guide there are only a couple of can't go there spots and there is always a bailout side. It seems reasonable to incorporate some mountain into a mountain course, no? My experience in the two rounds was that most balls were lost off the tee and not around the greens. But saying that you need 30 yards of leeway on a 100 yard shot would imply that you need 60 yards either side of centerline for the drive of 200 yards; I doubt anyone demands 120 yard wide fairways to make a golf course fair.

I thought that the Plantation was slightly more strategic than the Palms; each had a unique look due to the different kinds of palm trees on the course. Both course avoided overuse of fresh water, which is highly admireable in the Coachella Valley. The Curely style of bunkering, reminiscent of the Sandbelt, with firm vertical faces made for very intimidating hazards which really directs play well. The bent greens at the Palms were a real treat though very confusing to read; kudos to the club for wanting to make the investment in the time it takes to syringe them in the summer months.

Many thanks to all three clubs for their amazing hospitality; it was truely a memorable weekend!

[Jason Topp]

In all fairness given the Evan Video, it is only fair to tell the Ryan Simper story.  

In the afternoon at Stoneeagle, 110 degrees, bright sunshine turning the rocks into charcoal briquettes, we go to the 7th tee, which has a spactacular view of the entire valley below.  There is a metal set of binoculars glimmering in the sunlight.  Ryan says, "What's this?", and sticks his face against the metal.  

After Ryan's yelps of pain die down, I say, "An intelligence test."

[Tommy_Naccarato]

My story on Sunday night was simply this: I beat Ran and nearly killed my partner while doing so.......

[Tom_Doak]

Pete L:  In the Renaissance Cup last December, every one of my associates walked the course for the two days.  A couple of them even carried their own bags.  Absolutely we thought about making it walkable, and it is, in winter temps and if you are under 50.  However, I don't think the course is long enough to host a college event, and you would find scores all over the map with those guys launching drivers at the par-4 greens.

Question for Tommy:  Did you guys play all the courses from the back tees for the event?

[Jason Topp]

Question for Tommy:  Did you guys play all the courses from the back tees for the event?

It was up to each group.  

[Evan Fleisher]

I'm kind of surprised by the comments here. Bette and I played Stone Eagle in April and we loved it. Granted we are better players, but not that good.

I think the heat was a major factor and you don't realize it. We played in Arizona 3 years ago in late August at 7am everyday as a 2 some in a cart, and by 10 we were baked thru and thru.

How someone didn't get really sick playing 36 holes is a miracle.

I thought the landing areas for the tee shots were very generous and I loved the bunkering and the recovery shots around the greens. I don't think the higher handicaps would find it too difficult on a day in day out basis.



Heck, I've seen higher handicaps go thru 20 to 30 balls in a round, and what always surprised me, was that they had that many balls in their bag.

Cary,

Like the masochistic walker that I am...I hoof'd it on round #1 at The Palms (started to feel shitty about hole 15 or 16).  After that, I decided to ride the other days.

I played 36 Sunday (Plantation and Stone Eagle) and then 36 on Monday (Stone Eagle and a solo round at PGA West Stadium).  As long as you kept a wet towel handy and drank PLENTY of water, I think most would fare okay.

But that's just me...

[Tom_Doak]

It would help me to hear where Tom H. actually hit his second shots out of play -- what holes, what side, what club (approximately).

[Jerry Kluger]

My experience with desert hillside golf before Stone Eagle were some of the Scottsdale area courses such as Silverleaf, Troon CC and Quintero.  The difference I found was that the others were wider and gave the impression that you were climbing the hills/mountains diagonally and not vertically.  I also found the bunkers at Stone Eagle to be vertical where you would hit the top of the bunker and roll down to the bottom of the bunker and face a severe uphill bunker shot where your ball was close to the back lip of the bunker, which my playing partner found to be comical.  My conclusion is that you need to play the course from where you feel comfortable and my game was not up to playing from the tips.

[Matt MacIver]

Having not seen Stone Eagle, is ir generally possible to run a ball up to the green, or are the greens elevated and/or guarded?  

Being a high-ish h-capper this is how I might attempt to play certain holes, if I could put my ego aside long enough.  

And I'm in the minority at my club but I want a HARDER course for my home course...I want to be tested, to get better.  So SE sounds like a place I would like, regardless.  

I'm playing Black Mesa this Sept. and would welcome more comparisons between the two, if anyone has more color.  

[Tom Huckaby]

David M. (and Tom D.)

I continue to think about this long and hard.  Stone Eagle remains a very difficult course for me to assess.  There is a lot I like about it, and a little I don't.  It sucks we have to focus on the latter.  But that's this website!

First things first:  David, you are forgiven for not reading all of my many posts here, but if you did, you would have read that I said several times that I have zero issues with the tee shots at Stone Eagle.  In fact, it's one of the most forgiving courses I have ever played in that respect.  I saw some shots that would have been off the world at munis end up just fine at Stone Eagle, four fairways away.  Others can find rocks, of course, but it's kinda cool in that respect.  So no issues there, my friend.

It's the approach shots I still maintain are too tough for the higher handicapper.  And again, Doak did the best anyone could there - it's just the nature of the site.

So I'll address the rest to both you and Tom D.  First, Tom, you continue to insist this is all about me and MY PLAY, but it's not.  Like I've said, I had one bad round, one great one.  I did witness several other players though, and I also have a pretty good imagination, and feel for how higher handicappers play, given I have been one, and most of the players I play with are such.  So what does it matter where I lost golf balls?  Actually even in my bad round I didn't lose that many!

But I sure saw lots of others lost.

And more importantly, I also saw lots of others, and myself, get into bunkers with lies, or distances of carry required, from which Tiger Woods would have been lucky to get out in one shot.  I alluded to this before, but the sand in the bunkers last weekend was VERY soft.  We got lots of buried lies, plugs, fried eggs.  Is it meant to be that way?  I'd assume not.  But even if not, well... the bunkers are huge and deep and many... thus many holes leave a bunker fate that at times may be worse than the rocks - it's more of a delayed death.  This won't effect the good golfer too much, but will KILL the poor one.

And I'd venture to say this happens on every single hole.  No David, I don't believe golf courses need 360 degrees of easy approaches, but I also don't think that every single green site should have a combination of rocks and bunkers such that immediate or delayed death is very possible, if not probable, for the lesser golfer on any shot from any distance.  And I truly believe that is the case at Stone Eagle.  Are there ANY greens where either rocks or deep bunkers in quantity or both aren't within 25 yards of the green, often times much less?  Then even on the sides with more grass and/or banks, aren't either death bunkers or more rocks lurking just over the grassed area?  As I go over it in my mind, I recall that is the case.  And if so, well... as I say it's just too much for the lesser golfer.  

So yes, that's how I see it.  I'd agree there are better places to miss on nearly all holes; but the lesser golfer surely can't/doesn't play for those, as our discussion with George Pazin herein proved.  

Hey, it's a pretty damn fun golf course.  It's visually incredible without a doubt.  Some of the fun shots the better player can play into greens, and the lesser one can if he lucks out and misses on grass, are really really fun.  I found the greens to be genius, not over the top at all.  It is one hell of an achievement, without a doubt.  Tom you created the most playable course possible on that site.  I'm a decent golfer, and while the course really isn't my cup of tea that much (just due to the difficult walk and the fact I'm not really all that into rocks on golf courses), I'd sure as hell play it again and I have no doubt I'd have fun.

I just couldn't possibly bring my Dad there; he - a pretty smart 25 handicapper who does tend to spray/chunk/mish-hit his irons, as most 25s do - couldn't finish the course.  He'd lose too many balls in the rocks, or take too many strokes in the bunkers - and it would all happen by the green.  I just plain can't see him having fun there.  He'd get far too frustrated.

And this is my only complaint/critique/whatever you want to call it.  Stone Eagle is a course for better players, made as close to doable for lesser ones as anyone could given that site... but on that site, well... it's just not meant for lesser golfers.

Oh well.  Maybe you'll buy this, maybe you won't.  No hassles.

I certainly could be wrong.  David, I'd guess you'll show me very clearly why you disagree.    But while you do, I'd also be interested in what other criticisms you have for the course, as you say exist.

TH

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom,
I figured it would be better trying to explain the courses to everyone--which I did--and let each match decide which tee was best for them.

I find Stone Eagle to be most enlightening good when played from the back tees, and I'm a short-knocker. In fact, I would say Stone Eagle is my favorite course to play from the back tees. There are just too many fun and challenging carries in which not to miss, like for instance the carries on #4, 6, 9 & 11. Those along with holes that look like tough carries and aren't, hole with somewhat easy carries that actually are tough, wel it all rather balances out quite nicely. And I'm the type of person that doesn't usually favor carries to define golf architecture on every golf hole yet Stone Eagle never fails to entertain nor disappoint.

While I apologize to all if the heat of Sunday's round got to you, as Tom points out, the course plays so much different in the winter with fasters fairways and even firmer greens. This is why I tried to explain to all, look at the architecture from an angle of what it would be like in the best of conditions, viewed from the most extreme conditions. (the heat and type of turf, which by the way Brian Harding does a masterful job of keeping fit)

As far as Huckaby from the tee, well Tom, If you can't stand the Heat, Stay out of the kitchen!

Seriously though, I find that Stone Eagle to be perfectly fair from the tee with more then enough ample width. So much that there are several interesting lines to the hole on almost every hole. Many of them are harder, some eare easier, but each of them more then entertaining and memorable. On Monday we played-up to the next set of tees. This was my second time I've played from there with the other four rounds coming from the very tips. I think I know the course for my own game enough to say that if I'm playing Stone Eagle and I have a choice of what tee I'm playing from, each and everytime the excitement of being there is going to have me looking to the very back no matter how bad or good I might be playing. Very few courses can do that to me.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tommy:

Where did I ever say anything except that the tee shots were very, very fun, and very, very forgiving?

You too are forgiven for not reading posts, but this is trying my patience.

 

Once again, I have zero issues about the tee shots.  It's the green surrounds that I believe are too much for the higher handicapper.

TH

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Stone Eagle is a course for better players, made as close to doable for lesser ones as anyone could given that site... but on that site, well... it's just not meant for lesser golfers.

I find this statement to be completely untrue. Completely false. I'm a 14.6 index and have not a single problem playing there. Steve Sailer, a 28 handicap told me he loved it. How do you explain that?

Also, to think that there is severity around the greens, well, I'm just wondering if the heat was so bad that you became discumbobulated, made a wrong cart turn and found yourself just up the hilll, playing the Art Hill's course at Big Horn!

[Tom Huckaby]

Tommy:

We shall agree to disagree.  Of course it's easy to make flip comments taking one line out of context, but that's cool, you're entitled.

My Dad is a 25 handicapper who plays very smart, but tends to mis-hit his irons a lot, and has quite a lot of trouble from the sand.  I have zero doubt he would absolutely hate Stone Eagle.  Another 21 handicap we know was heard to say some quite unfavorable things about the course, but in fairness and politness I shall not reiterate them here.  We each have our examples.

I sincerely do believe the combination of severely penal bunkers with death rocks by every single green makes it too much.  But again, we can disagree.

And I'll make no flip comments other than you're a Notre Dame fan, you enjoy masochism.  You're also a DAMN GOOD 14.6 index.

 

[HamiltonBHearst]

I didn't realize that raters being tired, or it being the second round of the day, or fourth of the weekend, or it being 90 degrees had anything to do with the architectural merits of a new course.

Maybe we can get Brad Klein to adjust the golfweek ratings accordingly.

[Tom Huckaby]

I didn't realize that raters being tired, or it being the second round of the day, or fourth of the weekend, or it being 90 degrees had anything to do with the architectural merits of a new course.

Maybe we can get Brad Klein to adjust the golfweek ratings accordingly.

Damn right Hammy - those Golfweek guys sure did let all that effect them way too much.

TH
Golf Digest Panelist

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom,
That 21 handicapper played how many holes before walking off because of the extreme heat? How can you or he decide exactly what he liked and didn't like? While I'll agree, that the rugged nature of the site isn't for the faint of heart, I think your missing something really important here. Other then direction of how the course was routed, forget how you played on Sunday afternoon. Go by what you saw in much more palatable conditions. (and rather enjoyable for those who missed on Monday) Also, with masterfully created greens such as these, as well as the features near them (humps, bumps, directing mounds, etc.) you learn rather quite quickly that playing to these great surfaces to be quite delightful. On Monday, I had the World's Most Beloved Golfer play his 130 yards to the hole, into #11's pin position, a scant 90 yards where he hit off of the backside of mound and "RAN" it with-in two feet.

Stone Eagle is full of fun shots like that which your not going to see when your ody temperature is up, your literally pouring water bottle after water bottle down your throat and it's the second round of the day.