Classic courses that are better now than ever..

[John Kavanaugh]

Besides Merion and Oakmont are there many more.  Is this a great ongoing trend...and why is it happening now of all times..

[Kyle Harris]

John,

Not to be a thorn in your side, but how far back are we talking here? By what comparison can we make for a course that opened in 1920 and now?

Word of mouth is a start I suppose.

[John Kavanaugh]

Kyle,

It all nothing but opinion anyway..Go back to opening day a take a shot.  I would say that Pine Valley and Pasa are not currently at their zenith.  But those are easy ones...I would guess ANGC is better now than when it opened but worse than it was in 86...just my opinion.

[Joe Hancock]

Someone tell me what "better" means....

I'll guess. It means the turf is perfectly uniform. It means the greens are reasonably receptive. It means the bunkers are smooth and firm. It means the fairway striping is whatever is currently en vogue......

Or does it have to do with tree removal?

Joe

[Kyle Harris]

Merion East is probably tops on the list as you indicated.

Not so sure about Oakmont, that place had to be something in the 20s.

Likewise with ANGC as you mentioned.

Bethpage Black and Red are probably playing the best they ever have played.

It seems the major championship restorations/renovations could be a driver for this.

Any thoughts on Pinehurst #2? I think it played better in 1999 than 2005.

[John Kavanaugh]

Joe,

I would say better means more fun to play with the intent of beating a chosen opponent.

[John Kavanaugh]

Any thoughts on Pinehurst #2? I think it played better in 1999 than 2005.

I played it around 02...What differences did you see from 99 to 05..Did they pull in the fairways and lengthen the rough.  I'm not sure..I would say the Pinehurst #2 is now more interesting than when it opened and better with the bent greens..

[Kyle Harris]

The fairway corridors were much narrower in 2005. I also think the rough was significantly deeper in 2005. I think they made a routing change in the loop on the front nine, as well, but I'm not too sure about that.

I usually watch the tape from the weekend broadcasts of the 1999 US Open (Payne Stewart is/was my favorite golfer  ) around this time of year.

About time to do that again.

[Wayne Freeman]

I don't know if they're "better than ever", but I played Garden City after the bunkers had been redone and many many trees had been removed and it looked fabulous.  Likewise for Minikahda-  they just looked so clean and classy.  

[TEPaul]

There are a lot of classic courses that are better now than ever because their agronomy and maintenance practices are so much better than they once were.

Some on here might think golf maintenance should be like it was 90 years ago.

What they forget is how rudimentary it was and how those people back then were struggling not just to perfect it but to understand what it was that made it manageable.

 

[Travis Ripley]

I think they made a routing change in the loop on the front nine, as well, but I'm not too sure about that.

if so, i'd be interested to hear about that.  i was at the Open in 2005 from Monday-Sunday so insofar as not actually playing #2 i felt pretty familiar with the course i don't see what routing changes could actually be made on the front other than the existing 2005 routing --?.   just curious.    

[Mike_Cirba]

Besides Merion and Oakmont are there many more.  Is this a great ongoing trend...and why is it happening now of all times..

No, John...it's a Pennsylvania thing, only.  We just continue to get better and better and better while the rest of the world stays static or declines.  By the year 2025 we should be evolving into a whole new species at this rate.

Either that or Tom Fazio is a genius.

[Gene Greco]

Shinnecock is better than ever with Mark M's magic touch.

[TEPaul]

Kyle:

Iniitially, the front nine of Lancaster didn't cross the river. There were a few orginal holes to the left of the driveway that were lost, another that was turned from two hole into one (#13). The other we'll just have to wait for Wayno to weigh in because I forgot.

You know where the third tee is? There used to be a little downhill par three from there to just behind the 7th fairway.

Then in later times they had a series of holes around and behind where the range is now called the "Sunset Six" because those holes down on the river flooded so much you couldn't play them or those across the river.

[mark chalfant]

Plainfield  CC,  IMO  always one of the finest Ross courses. Now following ambitious tree managment,recaptured greens  surface,and  authentic bunker restoration it is magnificent.


Minikahda and  Brookside are also noteworthy

[wsmorrison]

Gene,

Mark and his staff (including Adam Jessie) have done a marvelous job.  I can't wait to get up there and see the green expansions they've been working on and also the new state-of-the-art irrigation system they have recently installed.

The bunkers play and look beautifully.  However, when the course first opened up and for a decade or so afterwards, Flynn's intended bunker look was a lot different than it is today.  Flynn's intentions were either misunderstood or too difficult to maintain during the Depression.  Undulating sandy waste areas grew in and discreet bunkering was a result.  To go back exactly to Flynn's original plans would be expensive and add to ongoing maintenance costs.  Early aerial photographs and some ground photos right after construction show some remarkably different schemes.  However, today, they are among the finest looking bunkers I've seen anywhere.  Their locations are near perfection  as well especially how they work with offset fairways and greens.

[Joel_Stewart]

On the West coast I would say Cypress Point, and soon to be San Francisco Golf Club and the Meadow Club  as being in their best condition and playability ever.  

Pebble some would say is as good as ever but I question that, Olympic needs to have all of their bunkers and some greens rebuilt, and Riveria, Bel-Air (Fazio-ized) and LACC have had some modernization done which seems out of place.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

just got back from our member-member tournament at Aronimink, and TEPaul's firm-and-fast maintenance meld is in full effect.  And, that IMHO has made the course better than it's been in many, many years.  

Would've taken pictures, but we were concentrating on getting out of the basement in our flight from the very first match... next time.

[Anthony Butler]

Many of the 'classic' courses in Australia are playing better than ever. New South Wales has resurfaced a couple of it's more extreme greens to recover more pin positions. The greens and the rest of the rest of the playing surfaces have never been better.

Royal Sydney has made a couple of changes that have increased the interest and challenge of the course. Kingston Heath and Royal Melbourne are playing as good as ever. Royal Adelaide is a wonderful track, even more so after the TW&P renovations done approx 10 years ago. Royal Queensland will most likely be a much better course after Mike Clayton completes the rerouting/redesign.

It's all good...  

[Jim Sweeney]

Ditto on Shinny. Crystal Downs. Pasatiempo.

[Kenny Lee Puckett]

Myopia Hunt Club.  5 of the first 9 are 1/2 par holes with the new tehnology.

JWK