Architects.....Goals? Future Plans?

[Ryan Farrow]

Over the last few days I have been thinking about what exactly I want to accomplish on my road to becoming a designer. At first I just wanted a way in the door, mainly through and internship and hopefully some job working full time at a design firm. After some more thought, I don’t think I will be fully satisfied until I have designed my own course.

But what comes after that?

I know rankings aren’t all that meaningful, but for some of you that don’t have a top 100 course by this or that magazine, is it something you really want?

After establishing yourself as a respectable architect, is that it? Or are you looking for something more?  Maybe expanding your firm?

Is it helping out aspiring architects or lending your services to restore a once brilliant course free of charge?

What is next?

[Glenn Spencer]

Ryan,

Good luck to you in your future endeavors, I would play one of your courses anytime.

You don't have to have a top 100 course to be considered a success, just ask Arthur Hills. He doesn't have any in the top 200 and he has more money than God.

[Ryan Farrow]

I remeber reading the Lighthouse Sound was in a top 100 You Can Play. But lets leave him out of this.....

Glenn, do you honeslty think any architects out there are in this for the money?

[Jordan Wall]

Ryan,

Yes, of course.  It is a business.

Obviously there are going to be some who see it differently than we do.
As a business, rather then a game.
To me though, a golf course is a golf course whether an architect built it for the money or for the game.
You either accept it or you dont.

[Brad Tufts]

Beyond the earning of money in exchange for the service of designing a golf course, I think it would be difficult for a golf architect to be doing it purely for the money.

There is so much involved in planning, designing, and constructing a golf course that I would think it's tough to completely mail it in.

We may criticize someone like Arthur Hills for having few "great" designs, but many are good, and almost all are likely providing enjoyment to their members or daily fee players.

[Garland Bayley]

Ryan,

You will get satisfaction by doing a job that fulfills you and doing the best you can under the current circumstances. As a professional software engineer, I have done some of my most creative work on a product that bombed, and I have done mundane work on a product that is top in the industry. The most creative work is more satisfying than the mundane work.

[GDStudio]

Ryan,

Pick a job you love, you'll never have to work a day in your life...

Can't remember what tv show/movie/ or documentary that was in, but that sums it up for why I am in this business.  Even the hard days really aren't work when I compare it to buddies that complain non-stop about their jobs.

[Glenn Spencer]

Ryan,

Branden makes an excellent point. There are no engineer message boards that golfers spend all afternoon on at work!!! I think everyone that has ever worked a job in their life has done it for the money to some degree. It is nice to love or even not hate your job, don't ask me though, I wouldn't know.

[Ryan Farrow]

I enjoy reading now; something I never thought was possible. That alone proves to me that I have chosen well.

Which reminds me..... Never order free shipping on Amazon.com, I have 3 books that I have been waiting on for 2 weeks and they still have not been billed or shipped yet.

[Garland Bayley]

Glenn,

There are software boards that software engineers spent all afternoon on at work. There are software engineers that can't believe they really pay them to do what they love.

I can't speak for other engineering professions, but I do know I dreamed about working as a mechanical engineer for a car company to build cars when I was a kid.

[Glenn Spencer]

Garland,

Of course there are. I was just saying that there aren't any PGA Tour pros looking at them.

[Neal_Meagher]

Ryan,

The questions you ask are good ones and I'm surprised that more architects haven't responded to them.  As for me, being one of the many who don't have a top 100 course I'd like to answer a few of your questions.

I do not think that you will find many highly regarded architects who do it "for the money".  I'm not saying that they aren't out there, its just that the money tends to find the talent.  Conversely, I believe that it is true of any field that the practitioners who just want to wallow in wads of dough have a harder time creating lasting, virtuous and enigmatic products.  Be they software or golf courses.  Now, investment banking, public relations and insurance law are most probably different.

You ask what is there beyond building a few courses and gaining a name for oneself.  I think that most architects who are truly in love with the field are always wanting and looking for better and better sites and better and better clients.  If those two factors are successful, then the chances of the golf course being all that it can be are much better.  That, in turn, creates even more ongoing opportunities to stretch one's skills in the practice of the craft by being invited to conceive of courses on better and better sites.

Others do, as you suggest, take great pride and pleasure in the teaching and mentoring of others, such as my former employer of a dozen years, Mr. Graves.  It is up to the student, however, to take what is being offered by these generous souls and to either stay static with what is tought, or to go beyond their mentors beliefs.  The architect that loves to give of himself and his life experiences must be the happiest of all.

If you are earnest, take the field seriously but have fun along the way, listen to what EVERYBODY you meet says whether you at first agree with them or not, success will arrive for you.  Of course, as you have noted, there are different definitions of success.  For me, I will freely admit that it would be a boon to the old career to have a "top 100" course, but the reality of having a new design placed within the top .00625 percent of all courses in the U.S. is slim.  Very slim.

So, ultimately, I think that most architects have learned to strike a proper balance between their business aspirations and their artistic aspirations.  In time, you will also.

[Ian Andrew]

Ryan,

I'm 17 years in without truly designing my first course. I have had a major hand in a few alkong the way, but every last bit from start to finish remains a goal.

But what comes after that?


We all have some ideas we would like to try. Whether it is our own form of a template course, or in my case a course built entirely based upon the ideass and holes of Stanley Thompson.

After establishing yourself as a respectable architect, is that it?

No, you simply hope to improve your courses with everything you try and each course you do. To a small degree it's helpful to always think you can improve on everything you do. At least that is how I will always look at things.

Or are you looking for something more?  Maybe expanding your firm?

No I'm exactly what I want to be, a one man operation.

Is it helping out aspiring architects or lending your services to restore a once brilliant course free of charge?


Most will help out aspiring architects if asked, it is one of the friendliest industries there is (most of the time). I think we all dislike somebody.

Many architects tailor their fees to the level of interest in a project. I will reduce me fee on occasion, but usually only for a small mom and pop operation. My heart is with them, because they are what matters most in golf.

What is next?

For me, I find it difficult to look  my beyond building my first course. It means to much for me to me to look beyond.

[Yannick Pilon]

Ryan,

As an associate in a larger firm, my day to day goal is to make my clients happy, whatever the project.  I know it sounds cheesy and, of course, some projects can be more rewarding than others, but is is still the main goal to me.

In renovations, I try to work to respond to my client's needs and wishes (even though what they need is not necessarily what they wish... ), and possibly raise the reputations and/or rankings of their club along the way, if that is something within reach... of course!

As for new courses, I can't wait to design and build my first course.  Again, being an associate, I know it won't be my name on the course, and the design won't be entirely my own either, as it will be approved and possibly tweaked by my boss. But still, it will be a major milestone for me.  I have a nine-hole par three course under way that I have handle since the start, but it doesn't really count like a 18 hole regulation course....

One of my dreams is also to build a really good course with a small budget.  A course people will really want to play, but for a small green fee price that everybody will be able to afford, similar to Rustic Canyon.... That occasion might become a reality within the next few weeks, as we have a potential project that fits within that description on the verge of getting its financing in place, so I am crossing my fingers....

As for the top 100 rankings, I can only hope to have the chance to work on a property that can likely lead to that one day, although I try to look at every course as if it had the chance to get that ranking....  Producing good work and  making your clients happy is, I feel, the best way to get that chance.  That being said, a top whatever course is not necessarily a goal, as long as people like the course and that it is succesful on its own....

Do I want my own firm? Not for now. It's really not a priority.  I now have the chance of working with great clients and I feel we have exciting projects coming our way.  I would never have that chance right now if I was on my own.

As for teaching, I love teaching what I know to people trying to get into the business.  I also love talking to other architects.  Although it's a tough business to get into, I don't see what someone has to gain by not helping out.  It can only help the game and the industry if architects (or people wanting to be architects) help each other out in order to elevate the quality of their work.  I hope others feel the same way too.

So, Ryan, I hope you find a way to get into the business and be happy with your work.  It might be difficult for a few years, but don't stop trying until you reach your goals.  They are worth it.

Yannick

[Forrest Richardson]

Ryan —

Neal sends several great messages. You really need to follow your heart.

I am not sure that it needs to be 100% business or passion. I have managed to balance the scale, so to speak.

My goals are simple: Do interesting work, help our clients be successful and take care of my family and my team.

By intersting work I mean courses that are fun, full of surprises and have holes which the player is not likely to find on any other course. If I can get several holes to fit this bill, then I feel like I have created something worthwhile. Fun courses are a must. If it isn't fun then it probably wasn't worth my time — or someone else's money.

My future plans are to build on the work we have done. And, to not be afraid to take on interesting work — small projects, alternative programs, remodels, etc.

[paul cowley]

good post Yannick ....as well as the man hidden behind the trees!

[paul cowley]

..but Ryan, you just might want to hedge your bet and maybe first try to explore a career in wholesale plumbing supplies as in  "you want how many 3/4" tees?...how about elbows? [or nipples ....gotcha" and then make a lot of money to take care of all your responsibilities and then try to enter this business with less pressure and a more philanthropic approach............just a thought.

[Ryan Farrow]

Thanks for the comments so far.... well most of them. Paul, you want me to do what?  


Yannick, are you looking for more solo design experience before possible going out on your own? Is it all the added responsibilities and stress that comes along with owning your own business that might hold you back?
My mom recently gave up on her business after 15 or so years. It really started to take a toll with the ups and downs. Is this something that keeps a lot of associates from really coming out on their own?

I would think everyone working in this great field would want to be a lead designer some day. Am I wrong?

[Jeff_Brauer]

I once had great goals and aspirations for golf course architecture....and then last week, I read here (and if its on golf club atlas, it must be true, no?) that no matter what I did, I was doomed to medicority.  So, now, I have no goals.  

I had been working on a set of the most wonderful green designs ever, full of the best features of the best greens, and without any flaws of the worst ones.  I threw those out, pulled out the circle template, and drew 18 perfect circles at ground level, put a spot elevation in the middle to make sure it drained in all directions, and put my stamp on it, now comfortable that I was designing greens that "fit" my station in the world of golf course architecture.

I am hoping to hook on as an apprentice electrician with Tommy, where if I made a mistake, I would only hurt myself, and not injure the entire golf world with my architecture.

It's a shame really, since gca was my true passion and talent, at least so I thought.  Up til then, I worked very hard with a goal of making each design just a little better than the last one.  I think I have succeeded for the most part, and continue to do so.

I also enjoy remodels, even if I am not designing from scratch.  Putting one nice green out on rural courses that never thought they could have or afford something that good always gave me pleasure, even if the gca snobs wouldn't rank it worthy of a mention........

I also tried to remember to "enjoy the ride" being one of the lucky hundred or so who can actually make a living at this.  (I am practical, yet not particularly money motivated, and always joke that I will be a golf course architect until the money is all gone......)  Don't forget to enjoy the here and now while on your way to some higher goal.

If I had more specific gca goals, it would be to design crossing fairways someday, somewhere!

I occaisionally wonder - especially when we clean out old drawings every Xmas to save space - if someday, someone  would ever want to see some of those old drawings or hear how they came to be.  I guess it would be a goal, then, for at least some golfer to be touched by my work enough to look me up, even if I am dead.  He could be that 12 year old kid who played his first round on my course like I did years ago, Ran Morriset Junior, or he could be a US Open champ. Doesn't really matter.

I am now just living out the string, and waiting to die.  I am sitting in a dark room writing this, but if I go out later, I will look into burial plots.  Maybe I can be buried in the ninth fairway of tiddly links muni across town........

[Yannick Pilon]

Ryan,

First, I think you need two things if you are thinking of going on your own.  You need experience, and you need contacts and credibility. (Well, I guess that’s three things….) Right now, I don’t have enough of any of those three things to even consider it.  It would almost be a professional suicide if I did!

Working in an established firm is a good way to get all of those things, but you have to work in the field.  You can’t get all the knowledge you need by just staying in the office and drawing plans and writing specs.  You need to see the construction process to learn the most.  In my humble opinion, that’s where you get the best experience, make those contacts and, hopefully, build your credibility.

Second, I have a pretty good thing going with my present employer.  We have what I believe is a very good relationship and he seems to trust me more and more every week.  Right now, I can see myself spending many more years working there if things continue the way they are going.

So, for the big question: Do I want to be a lead designer one day?  I guess the honest answer would be yes, but I don’t see it as a big priority.  I know some people don’t mind working in the shadows, while others do everything they can to get all the attention they can get.  I guess I sit somewhere in the middle.  I have always liked to see my name on plans I have designed or just drawn for others.  It gets your name out there, it makes people know you at least a little.  But once you start working on site, people become more aware of your role and your degree of implication in a project.  To me, I feel that’s more important than the name on the plan or the credits in an article or the scorecard of the course….  But things might change with time!  You never know, and I have seen it happen….

I hope this answers your questions.

Yannick