It's time to stop building 19th holes..

« **on:** May 31, 2006, 08:58:11 AM »

I hate everything that comes with having a 19th hole such as..

Gotta be harder to walk. If you are in a cart you can drive in after 18 but if you are walking the hole anyway might as well play it. Do rounds automatically become longer time wise because...Golf is long enough as is. Are 5 hour rounds now the norm..

When somebody asks what you shot do you pick your best 18 out of 19. Telling stories and worse..listening to them becomes a pain and confusing.

Do you declare you are playing 19 before the round in betting situations or is it left up to who is down....more confusion. Basically you are now a member of a club with a par 3 finishing hole...Whoever said that is a good thing.

How is the hole handicapped...odd or even.

« **Reply #1 on:** May 31, 2006, 09:05:28 AM »

I'm issuing an Andy Rooney alert.

Rarely is a par 3 hole handicapped lower than 10, and rarely do I have a match where more than 10 strokes are given. All bets are negotiated. I have friends who live to negotiate bets.

The other JK

« **Reply #2 on:** May 31, 2006, 09:09:01 AM »

John,

Rarely is the 18th hole one the 10 easiest....Golf betting has done pretty well for the last few centuries without this fad...

If you are playing a guy you are giving ten strokes and suddenly the last hole of the day is played even up everything is out of wack..

« **Reply #3 on:** May 31, 2006, 09:13:08 AM »

I'm not really interested in debating the value of a 19th hole; the 18 hole bet is fine the way it is. I'm just saying the 19th hole is there to negotiate additional bets, or to break a tie, at some places.

« **Reply #4 on:** May 31, 2006, 09:17:51 AM »

19th holes are fun, JKav. I have to say that I play ours only one time out of ten, it's usually time for a G & T, it is not often necessary to play the 19th.

Our 19th tee is maybe 50 yards from 18 green, big deal.

« **Reply #5 on:** May 31, 2006, 01:36:22 PM »

Quote from: John Kirk on May 31, 2006, 09:13:08 AM

I'm not really interested in debating the value of a 19th hole; the 18 hole bet is fine the way it is. I'm just saying the 19th hole is there to negotiate additional bets, or to break a tie, at some places.

I don't see what's wrong with paying up and vowing you'll get 'em next time. I can't believe some guy who's just paid $600k to join Sebonack is THAT desperate to square the bet, unless the wager is pink slips on each other's private jet. (This comment based on my own betting experience where over 90% of the time someone is ahead after 18.)

If it's all square and you HAVE to have a result... the putting green's as good as any other place and about as meaningful as playing a 100yd hole.

« **Reply #6 on:** May 31, 2006, 01:39:35 PM »

Come on John. They're cute.

« **Reply #7 on:** May 31, 2006, 01:42:39 PM »

Anthony's right, as is Bogey. Yes, they're cute, but so are waterfalls......

« **Reply #8 on:** May 31, 2006, 04:46:06 PM »

Talk to the guys who have all the money. It is their decision but hey, It's an extra golf hole. What are you so angy about?

I think you just dont like golf.

« **Reply #9 on:** May 31, 2006, 05:01:06 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on May 31, 2006, 08:58:11 AM

I hate everything that comes with having a 19th hole such as..

Gotta be harder to walk. If you are in a cart you can drive in after 18 but if you are walking the hole anyway might as well play it. Do rounds automatically become longer time wise because...Golf is long enough as is. Are 5 hour rounds now the norm..

When somebody asks what you shot do you pick your best 18 out of 19. Telling stories and worse..listening to them becomes a pain and confusing.

Do you declare you are playing 19 before the round in betting situations or is it left up to who is down....more confusion. Basically you are now a member of a club with a par 3 finishing hole...Whoever said that is a good thing.

How is the hole handicapped...odd or even.

Yeah, you're right John. And they should definitely demolish this one.

« **Reply #10 on:** May 31, 2006, 07:22:11 PM »

The 19th hole (The Hog Hole) at Forest Creek is a blast, we only play it about half the time out there, but it is used mostly for bets, as it should be.

« **Reply #11 on:** May 31, 2006, 10:10:45 PM »

David M.,

It is rare that you don't substantiate your position on an issue. In this case, you show a pretty picture, complete you post with a sarcastic remark and don't address any of JK's issues as to why or why not 19th holes are bad.

You feeling OK?

Joe

« **Reply #12 on:** May 31, 2006, 10:19:24 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on May 31, 2006, 08:58:11 AM

I hate everything that comes with having a 19th hole such as..

Gotta be harder to walk. If you are in a cart you can drive in after 18 but if you are walking the hole anyway might as well play it. Do rounds automatically become longer time wise because...Golf is long enough as is. Are 5 hour rounds now the norm.

My club has had a 19th hole for about 80 years. None of these things you are whining about are issues.

The game of golf is 18 holes - if you want to play 19 for a beer or to break a tie that is optional. It is very rare that strokes are given.
The score that you made is your score for 18.
When you are playing match play and your match ends before 18 then all other holes are superfluous other than for handicapping purposes.
The 18th green is closer to the clubhouse than the 19th tee so if you are lazy then walk in after 18.

Golf is a great game - what is wrong with playing one more hole? Remember that The Old Course at St. Andrews used to have 22 holes and the number of holes on a course was quite variable - so golf hasn't functioned for centuries with 18 holes.

« **Reply #13 on:** May 31, 2006, 10:42:53 PM »

Erin Hills has a 19th hole.

The original design had some room between 18 and the clubhouse so they built a fantasic par 3 to get back home.

Later it was decided the original 9th (a great par five) was going to be #18 .

Now to get from 9 to 10 you have a decision.... Play the extra hole because its on the way or skip it because its an extra hole in the midde of the round (practice, holding up everyone behind you)...?

Seems a little awkward.

I'm with you JK. 19th holes are more trouble/expense than their worth.

« **Reply #14 on:** May 31, 2006, 10:55:44 PM »

In my career I am even par on the 19th hole. I never make a bogey while drinking or looking at women. Why would you want to get rid of the 19th hole? As far as these extra golf holes to settle bets, I don't get it. Of course I am not a big fan of 19-27 either. I like the complex to be 18 or 36, but that is just me.

« **Reply #15 on:** May 31, 2006, 10:56:20 PM »

I like everything about the bye hole. It's a rare occasion that you get to play it. I've played Stanford many times, but only finished with the 19th once or twice.
I have to disagree John, build more of them, only one to a course though.

« **Reply #16 on:** May 31, 2006, 10:58:43 PM »

I'm kinda curious about the Lehigh or other 80 yr old 19th holes. Are they each the worst par 3 on the course...I think I could live with that more than if the hole was very interesting. I'm really concerned that a hole like the one DM presented could cut into the possibility of an emergency nine or even an extra 18. The hardest thing about a real world membership second 18 is getting it started. We don't all live on vacation where the golf is limitless..No way do I have time for 38...

« **Reply #17 on:** May 31, 2006, 11:17:29 PM »

Quote from: Mike McGuire on May 31, 2006, 10:42:53 PM

Erin Hills has a 19th hole.

The original design had some room between 18 and the clubhouse so they built a fantasic par 3 to get back home.

Later it was decided the original 9th (a great par five) was going to be #18 .

Now to get from 9 to 10 you have a decision.... Play the extra hole because its on the way or skip it because its an extra hole in the midde of the round (practice, holding up everyone behind you)...?

Seems a little awkward.

I'm with you JK. 19th holes are more trouble/expense than their worth.

Mike,

Here is a quote from the Erin Hills web site... "The front nine and back nine are connected by a downhill par-3 bye hole." I don't know if that is a 19th hole but whatever it is I am way against it at a $150 public course. The only benefit may be going around the group in front of you as they play the hole. I predict a fisticuffs the first year...

« **Reply #18 on:** May 31, 2006, 11:21:38 PM »

Having seen the 19th at Sebonack, I think most will want to play it regardless if they tied. It is fun. And isn't that what golf is all about?

« **Reply #19 on:** May 31, 2006, 11:27:12 PM »

Quote from: Steve_Roths on May 31, 2006, 11:21:38 PM

Having seen the 19th at Sebonack, I think most will want to play it regardless if they tied. It is fun. And isn't that what golf is all about?

Steve,

Sebonack is not a resort course so I don't really care what the members of this site will do when they visit. Sure they will play the 19th just like I would too. I'm talking about the problems a 19th hole presents to the real world golfer who plays the same course day after day. Is the 19th at Sebonack the least best par three on the site...If not maybe it shouldn't be the 19th and won't when the US Open comes calling..

« **Reply #20 on:** May 31, 2006, 11:42:52 PM »

I am willing to bet that Sebonack will never host an Open. They need to move that thing out of the NY area to begin with. Adding another course to the Open rotation should be in the Midwest.

Erin Hills looks like it fits that bill. They need to find another one out that way as well.

« **Reply #21 on:** May 31, 2006, 11:50:32 PM »

I've got to get some sleep but I would just like to know if it is a given that the 19th hole should be the least best hole on the course.

« **Reply #22 on:** May 31, 2006, 11:53:18 PM »

What's the harm?

The more golf the better correct?

« **Reply #23 on:** May 31, 2006, 11:54:28 PM »

There goes that sleep you were craving Jonny Boy.

That question should keep you turning all night.

« **Reply #24 on:** June 01, 2006, 12:57:44 AM »

Treehouse Gang,

Who cares how many holes are at the golf course?

3, 6, 14, 20, 27, so what.

The USGA can calculate handicap for 9 holes and 18, why not more than or less than 18?

Golf is one hole at a time, maybe we should have individual hole handicaps.

Troy

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