News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5

Gary_Nelson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« on: May 30, 2006, 09:03:18 PM »
Is there any first hand experience playing from bunkers raked in the manner described by Jack Nicklaus at this year's Memorial?

It will be interesting to see how this maintenance technique alters player strategy.

Click here for the Reuters article:

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=sportsNews&storyID=2006-05-30T194418Z_01_L30094111_RTRUKOC_0_US-GOLF-PGA-BUNKERS.xml&archived=False




Logged

peter_p

Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2006, 09:40:40 PM »
Try this  http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Golf/News/2006/05/30/1606918-ap.html  It links.

Huzzah. Huzzah. I'd watch if I wasn't mimicking bacon in Palm Springs.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2006, 09:41:27 PM by Peter Pittock »
Logged

Jim Nugent

Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2006, 02:14:30 AM »
The pro at the first course I caddied at told me he played one U.S. Open.  At Oakmont.  Called it the toughest course he ever saw.  Made a special point of how hard the bunkers were, with their furrowed surfaces.  
Logged

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2006, 08:32:03 AM »
I think this is a good thing. Go get 'em Jack.

Bob
Logged

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2006, 08:53:36 AM »
Quote
"Brad Faxon and Jerry Kelly got their first look at the furrows in the bunkers during a morning practice round.

"It's a hazard," Faxon said.

Of greater concern to Kelly was the methodology in the art of raking a bunker. When the furrows run toward the target, players at least have a chance of getting their club on the ball. When the furrows are perpendicular, players have to hit behind a clump of sand, and they can't get much - if any - spin on the ball."

Why have they instantly assumed that there should be FREAKIN' FURROWS!?!?!
Just call me an old aesthete, but I tend to rake (when I have to!) in as random a pattern as possible.
Therein may lie the problem with this otherwise interesting and worthwhile experiment...

FBD.
Logged
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2006, 10:55:56 AM »
Good for Jack. That is one of the more encouraging things I have read about golf in a while. I hope it works.
Logged
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

peter_p

Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2006, 11:00:09 AM »
Jerry must have read "'The Zen of Bunker Gardening".
Logged

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2006, 12:36:18 PM »
For a neat pic of a "furrowed bunker":

www.geoffshackelford.com
Logged
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
The Mind of Jack Nicklaus
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2006, 01:28:06 PM »
One of the major benefits of being famous for your entire adult life is that only your family will tell you that one of your ideas is crap before it gets out in the public...

A lot of people-myself included-are surprised when they meet Jack Nicklaus how eccentric some his 'ideas' are. (Let's start with his manner of enforcing a 'no ties' policy in the office and go from there...) So it doesn't surprize me that Memorial is the first PGA stop to try this. Unlike some of Jack's other ideas that haven't panned out so well, I think this one is awesome and I look forward to the TV commentary during the weekend... the scores should be interesting too.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 02:54:50 PM by Anthony Butler »
Logged
Next!

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2006, 04:12:41 PM »
Makes one wonder if his bunker play was not up to snuff and he was always jealous of those who could outplay him from the bunker. :)
Logged
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Furrowed brows at the Memorial
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2006, 04:17:00 PM »
Garland Bayley
Quote
Makes one wonder if his bunker play was not up to snuff and he was always jealous of those who could outplay him from the bunker. :)
Garland, you know that reply is pure Mucci-bait. ;) Plus, if you read to the end of the article Jack says he got it up and down 2 out of 2 when he played the course Saturday.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2006, 04:18:22 PM by Anthony Butler »
Logged
Next!

Ryan Farrow

Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2006, 04:43:31 PM »
Does this open the door for use at Oakmont just over a year from now??????


If so, I am calling it now, even par may very well win the 07 Open.
Logged

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2006, 04:51:55 PM »
Who rakes, the caddie?, or will Muirfield have rakers at every hole?

If you run the furrows long-ways you could be in there a while cleaning up 'cause everyone will be walking out the short way.

Just loosening up the sand would serve the same purpose, although it will be interesting to watch what happens.
Logged
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2006, 11:06:53 PM »
Quote from: Garland Bayley on May 31, 2006, 04:12:41 PM
Makes one wonder if his bunker play was not up to snuff and he was always jealous of those who could outplay him from the bunker. :)

Garland,

I think it's safe to say that he envied one of his biggest rivals, Gary Player's bunker game.

But then again, who didn't ?


Jim Kennedy brings up an interesting point about directional raking.

My guess is that they'll have staff rake the bunkers in a predetermined pattern after a competitor leaves the bunker.
Logged

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2006, 11:19:00 PM »
Why is that Patrick? Just out of curiosity.
Logged

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #15 on: May 31, 2006, 11:25:19 PM »
Quote from: JES II on May 31, 2006, 11:19:00 PM
Why is that Patrick? Just out of curiosity.


JES II,

My guess is that they have a preconceived notion of how they want to present the bunkers.

Caddies might rake them randomly, counter to the intent.

It's not unusual for the hosting site of a PGA Tour event to have staff rake bunkers, and I'd think that they want them raked in a specific pattern, thus, having staff who are instructed and trained how to do so would seem to make sense.
Logged

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #16 on: May 31, 2006, 11:30:48 PM »
That makes sense. I'd prefer to see them carry this randomness experiment all the way and not have "trained rakers" on each hole. Should be fun to watch though. I'd expect to hear some grumbling from the players as the week goes, that's always the sign of a good tournament to me. ;D
Logged

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2006, 09:05:38 AM »
JES II,
If they wanted 'random', why not just remove the rakes or loosen up the sand? It will be interesting to watch, but hopefully this level of bunker preparation won't trickle down.
We often hear what the intense conditioning of Augusta has led to, the Tour and/or JN could have used this occasion to set a better example for bunker maintenance.
Logged
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Mike_Cirba

Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2006, 09:14:48 AM »
This is the most encouraging news I've heard from the PGA tour in the last decade.

This is fantastic and Jack Nicklaus should be applauded for trying to make bunkers play strategically once more.  

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: June 01, 2006, 09:16:09 AM by Mike Cirba »
Logged

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2006, 09:26:41 AM »
Ian Poulter was interviewed on the Golf Channel and suggested that one of the biggest problems would be playing from fairway bunkers.  
Logged

Mike_Cirba

Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2006, 09:30:20 AM »
Quote from: SL_Solow on June 01, 2006, 09:26:41 AM
Ian Poulter was interviewed on the Golf Channel and suggested that one of the biggest problems would be playing from fairway bunkers.  

Yes, Shel...I saw that.  I believe he suggested that the odds of getting on the green from the fairway bunkers was about 2 in 10.  
Logged

Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2006, 10:17:58 AM »
I heard all raking had to be toward the green to make it as consistent as possible.

The first time I saw those rakes was at Crystal Downs, but Jack had every other tooth removed to make furrows. Great idea.
Logged
Mr Hurricane

Jimbo

Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #22 on: June 01, 2006, 10:29:54 AM »
I really hope they let the furrows dry the sand out and we see some plugged lies, where the ball enters the crest between furrows.  Then, I hope another tournament does it and it catches on.

Here's why for me:  It would take a tremendous amount of pressure off of the industry and provide considerable construction and maintenance savings if the plugged lie was considered acceptable.  I mean a whole lot of savings.  From day to day practices such as rolling and smoothing to daily irrigation, to sourcing out angular sands that are not available to most of the country locally.  

It could subtract up to a couple hundred $K off construction cost and easily $50 k off yearly maintenance and equipment costs for those who are enslaved (such as myself) to the smooth, firm bunker where all balls roll to the center flat portion.

GO JACK GO!!
Logged

Anthony Butler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2006, 10:54:10 AM »
Quote from: Jimbo on June 01, 2006, 10:29:54 AM
I really hope they let the furrows dry the sand out and we see some plugged lies, where the ball enters the crest between furrows.  Then, I hope another tournament does it and it catches on.
It could subtract up to a couple hundred $K off construction cost and easily $50 k off yearly maintenance and equipment costs for those who are enslaved (such as myself) to the smooth, firm bunker where all balls roll to the center flat portion.

A ball rolling to the center of the bunker should be a function of design and construction (Royal Melbourne) not maintenance practices.

Here's the article on the furrowed bunkers for those that find the link above has expired:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2006/05/31/sports/s144231D15.DTL&type=golf

Jerry Kelly claims a bad lie (i.e. in the bottom of the furrow) might mean a wedge out to the fairway... been a while since we've seen that on the PGA Tour.

Logged
Next!

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Furrowed bunkers at the Memorial
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2006, 11:40:22 AM »
JES II,

I also think you have to look at this week's experiment in the context of Oakmont's furrowed bunkers and their patterns.

Jim Kennedy,

You're correct, but, it might not sell on National TV.

Unfortunately, what's seen on TV this week will be your headache next week.

I'd prefer your suggestion, HIDE THE RAKES.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 5
Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back