How does American amateur golf's....

[TEPaul]

national, state, regional and local structure compare with other nations in it's ability to provide comprehensive amateur tournaments and amateur organization and structure?

Does any other country have a national organization as strong and comprehensive as the USGA?

Does any other country have regional golf associations as strong as America's state, regional and local organizations?

Does any other country have a college amateur golf structure as strong as the NCAA?

Does any other country have a junior organization as strong as the ASGCA?

And if there are none in any other country that remotely competes or compares with America in structure, organization and offering, what does that mean?

[JESII]

And if there are none in any other country that remotely competes or compares with America in structure, organization and offering, what does that mean?

That the responsibility falls upon our (those that run the US's golf structure) shoulders to uphold golf's ideals.

[TEPaul]

"That the responsibility falls upon our (those that run the US's golf structure) shoulders to uphold golf's ideals."

Why? Is it because you think other countries don't or can't? Why would that be?

Be careful, Sully---these are loaded questions.

[JESII]

Tom,

I think the fact that the R&A handles most golf functions around the world is evidence enough that other countries don't offer what the USGA / NCAA / AJGA offer in the realm of structure and guidance to our amateur golfers.

If you want to discuss the USGA versus the R&A we could try but my knowledge of their intricate functions would be sorely lacking, and I don't think that is where you're trying to go anyway.

 

[wsmorrison]

Does any other state have as strong and comprehensive an organization as Pennsylvania?

Does any other district have as strong and compreshensive an organization as Philadelphia?

The Met likely does.  I think these organizations are integral to the continued success of golf in their regions.  These should be the models for other districts around the country.

It sounds like the mandatory membership of golfers in Australia (that belong to clubs) works for the greater good of golf there.

The handicap system requires management and oversight.  What would happen in the USA if the handicap system fell to one provider?  Has competition for handicap providers been good for the game or a redundancy that wastes resources?

[TEPaul]

"If you want to discuss the USGA versus the R&A we could try but my knowledge of their intricate functions would be sorely lacking, and I don't think that is where you're trying to go anyway."

Sully:

I'm more than willing to go in a number of directions on this thread. That's as good a direction as any. I think it would probably be a very informative excercise if more on here understood some of those intricate functions, as you call them. Have you ever wondered why it is the R&A seems to attract so much less criticism on here than the USGA does? There's probably a very simple and basic reason for that. Most people are not particularly critical of things of which they are not aware!  

[ForkaB]

Tom

I'm not sure where you are coming from on these various USGA threads, but on this one, I'll answer to the best of my ability.

1.  Yes, there are other national, "state" and regional associations which are just as good if not better than the USGA in terms of "provid(ing) comprehensive amateur tournaments and amateur organization and structure."  Off the top of my head I can think of the English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish Golf Unions who are just as good and probably better.

2.  This question is irrelevant as the USGA is the only national association which is also one of the two international rule making bodies.

3.  In my experience, the regional and local associations in GBI are stronger (and more effective) than those in the US.

4.  No other nation is close to the USA vis a vis an intercollegiate golfing structure (NCAA).

5.  I think there are many national and regional junior golf programs which are better than those in the USA.  Otherwise, why would GBI whip ass in the Walker Cup so much more often than they should do, given the resources available to both sides?  Why does the US underperform so much in terms of great (top 100) golfers produced per number of active golfers?

6.  Your hypothetical is unanswerable, as there are many comparitors as good or better than the US/USGA structure, organisation and offerring.  I've named 4 of them above.

Surely you can't argue with this logic!

Rich

[TEPaul]

"Tom
I'm not sure where you are coming from on these various USGA threads, but on this one, I'll answer to the best of my ability."

Rich:

Thank you. I'm not sure I completely understand why you need to know where I'm coming from. The questions are fairly straight forward----and they are just that---questions. I'm sure you can answer them on your own without the benefit of knowing whatever my opinions on any of them may be.  

On the other hand, I do feel I have a pretty good idea about your opinions on most of the ramifications of this issue of the USGA, American golf organization vs golf organizaation on the other side and I also feel it's very true to say your opinions are pure BUNKUM, as they always have been.

[TEPaul]

"5.  I think there are many national and regional junior golf programs which are better than those in the USA.  Otherwise, why would GBI whip ass in the Walker Cup so much more often than they should do, given the resources available to both sides? "

Your Magnificent Obtuseness;

Probably because all the little International golfing urchins from every other country in the world end up going to college on golf scholarships in the United States.

"Surely you can't argue with this logic!"

Of course I can and I always do and effectively. It is of no consequence that you're incapable of seeing it as everyone else does.

[TEPaul]

Frankly, Rich, in my opinion, everyone in England, Scotland and Ireland who has anything to do with junior golfers should be convicted in absentia in the United States of violating Child Labor Laws.

You people over there allow children who are barely out of short pants to  turn professional. US truant officers should shoot some of you people over there.

At least you should give your children over there the opportunities we do over here to become proficient in soul destroying video games, dabbling in all kinds of available drugs of their choice and prepubescent sex of every variety. It's a damn shame you people over there don't have the type of inspired national leaders we do who are capabable of setting the type of example for our children that oral sex is really not sex.

[JESII]

Tom,

I think you are probably right that the USGA takes more heat on here than the R&A because of familiarity. Can you tell me a couple of areas in which the two groups differ? Tell me about their functions as it pertains to each individual club. I know the R&A has a tremendous international operation; does that constitute a majority of their focus in terms of staff, infrastructure, revenue, growth opportunity (obviously yes), and long term interest? Does the USGA make much of a financial (or other) committment to international golf growth efforts? My real question though is, do these international efforts into non-golfing countries negatively impact these organizations home growth regulatory outlook? Have they lost sight of the issues facing mature golf societies due to their efforts to develop new societies?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

The Arkansas sate golf association is as good as any ..find the enclosed web site and see our event schedule

http://www.asga.org/

Under the direction of Jay Fox, we have a tremendous 20 + event scedule each of which carries points.
At the end of the yera the top ten players on the points table are then selected to play the
cup matches against the pros nad the following spring in our annual "ryder cup" with Mississippi called the Governers Cup.


The English Golf Union is rather good as Rich mentioned, here is their web site for those interested.
http://www.englishgolfunion.org/

[Wayne_Kozun]

Frankly, Rich, in my opinion, everyone in England, Scotland and Ireland who has anything to do with junior golfers should be convicted in absentia in the United States of violating Child Labor Laws.

You people over there allow children who are barely out of short pants to  turn professional. US truant officers should shoot some of you people over there.

At least you should give your children over there the opportunities we do over here to become proficient in soul destroying video games, dabbling in all kinds of available drugs of their choice and prepubescent sex of every variety. It's a damn shame you people over there don't have the type of inspired national leaders we do who are capabable of setting the type of example for our children that oral sex is really not sex.

Michelle Wie 16 year old American, professional - House=Glass so stone throwing will now commence!  Pot, kettle, black!

[Wayne_Kozun]

Does any other country have a college amateur golf structure as strong as the NCAA?

Most other countries do not have a very organized college sporting system. Have you ever heard of English or Brazilian College soccer?  But they produce oodles of great soccer players.

I am not making a judgement here, but most other countries believe that college scholarships should only go to those who demonstrate academic excellence or financial need, not those who demonstrate athletic proficiency.  In addition they stress scholastic pursuits over athletic where the sport is a sideline and classes are the main reason for college so they don't provide the coaching that one would get in the US.