[Dub_ONeill]

I walked eighteen watching Jack and Gary "reopen" the course last Saturday.  I think overall it seems as though the course will be terrific, although more difficult.  A significant number of greenside bunkers are now six to eight feet in depth.  Virtually all of the spruce trees that ate golf balls have been removed.  Jack commented that most of them had been added since he was in school and he did not like the fact that they left no recovery when the ball was underneath them.  The new number 4 now plays 585yds from the back.  Number six now plays 618yds off the back.  Many of the fairway bunkers are much deeper and steeper.  It will be interesting to see how the new bunkers work for the everyday player.  I would think that there will be concerns that the recreational player will be unable to escape from some of them and that the steep faces will result in some horrible unraked spots (for those that view that as a bad thing).  The biggest changes are the new greens at four and fourteen.  The green at number eleven was also reworked on the right side so that the large bunker right and short of the green now fits more "into" the green itself.  On several greens there have also been small areas "shaved" so that pins could be located where none were previously possible.  Examples would be the back right on number two, the back left on number thirteen and the back of number seven.  I can provide a bit more information on Jack's comments as to each hole if anyone is interested.

[Andy Doyle]

Dub:

Definitely interested in Jack's comments.  I haven't played the course since grad school - may have to make it back up there sometime soon.

Andy

[Dub_ONeill]

Here is a start.
#1: The changes include removing the spruce trees that were down the right side of the fairway between#1 and #9.  This area has now been filled with a large fairway bunker complex which can be challenged to cut the dogleg. A miss way right will still allow a shot to the green from the rough.  The small mounds that had been added down the left rough between the fairway and the driving range have been flattened.  Jack said when he was in school there were no trees down the right side of this hole and the defense for that side was very long rough which he viewed as the way it was originally intended.  He said it was not advisable to return to that idea because you could not get people around the course and he therefore opted for the fairway bunker complex.  The green is essentially unchanged other than reworking the existing bunkers.  He said that portions of the green near the bunkers had accumulated up to 18 inches of material over the years and they had now been returned to the original contour.
#2: The hole has been lengthened a bit.  The left fairway bunker has been redone and deepened.  The slight rise in the fairway at the landing area has been made more pronounced particularly on the left side just beyond the bunker.  Jack said that the small stand of trees on the right was not present when he was in school, but he decided not to remove it.  The greenside bunkers were reworked, but none were added or removed.  A spot was "shaved" into the steep slope on the back right of the green to create an additional pin location.  The green still pitches steeply from back to front with lots of internal contour.
#3: A new back tee has been built back and a little right from the regular tee.  The vestiges of the left fairway bunker previously abandoned has been entirely removed.  Two large trees at the left front of the green have been removed.  Jack said this was because they left no approach to the left third of the green.  Most of the trees behind this green had been removed last year. The existing bunkers were enlarged and deepened.  Jack said the green had been "softened" to create additional pin positions, but to the untrained eye it didn't look much different than I remembered it.

[Dub_ONeill]

#4: This is the biggest change.  There is a new back tee nearly behind the third green.  The entire fairway has been moved well right and plays slightly downhill to a new green across the pond in the middle of the course.  The hole was a little ove 500yds. and now plays at 585yds from the back.  A second shot to the green must carry the pond to a very wide but shallow green.  A second shot lay up must carry the creek that feeds the pond. A third shot from the lay up area plays to a very long but narrow green.  Jack said the old green was too close to the boundary fence and the old hole had simply become a long par four with a mid iron second to the green.  The OSU golf coach indicated that he had been opposed to the change, but Jack had prevailed.  The walk from #4 green to the #5 tee is now longer than most on the course between holes, but not really a big deal.
#5: Not much was done to this par three which from the back plays about 215yds into the prevailing wind.  There was no room to make it longer.  The front bunkers were redone.  The small splash bunker at the back of the green was removed.  Jack said it had not been there when he was in school.  There is still enough tilt in the green that he chipped and Gary putted off the front of the green from the back going down hill to a front pin.
#6: Was and remains the longest par five on the course.  It is now 618yds from the back tee.  A small fairway bunker on the left in the landing area has been replaced with a large, deep two bunker complex.  The small stand of trees to the right of the fairway has been kept but reduced by a tree or two to maintain the width of the landing area with the new bunkers.  Again many of the spruce trees on the left side of this hole that were just off the fairway have been removed.  In the second shot landing area there used to be a fairway bunker on the left side of the fairway. It has been moved across the fairway to the right side.  This leaves a wider bailout on the left for a second shot away from the trees and bunker on the right side which Jack said was the intent.  The green is largely unchanged with the existing bunkers being enlarged and deepened.

[Dub_ONeill]

#7: Another significant change is on this shortish par four which doglegs slightly left.  A little distance was added by extending the existing tee box back towards the third fairway.  The big change was the removal of the cross bunker which crossed almost the entire fairway about 150yds from the green.  It was replaced with a large deep bunker on the inside of the dogleg.  Jack said the cross bunker was a non-factor because it was simply carried by all championship players now. The new bunker requires a carry down the left of at least 300yds. There is a small stand of trees in the right rough that blocks the path to the green of a shot hit too far on that line.  The bunkers at the green are in the same locations as previously, but have been reworked.  New pin positions have been created back right and back left on what remains a pretty severe back to front sloped green that appears pretty much unchanged.
#8: This par three runs along the edge of the small lake.  A bunker used to run all the way across the front of the green.  It has now been replaced by two bunkers with a space in between and the green has been extended to reach closer to the pond.  At the back of the green an existing bunker has been increased so that it now comes into play on both #8 and on the nearby green for #10.  An alternate back tee has been built which requires a carry directly over the pond as opposed to along its edge.
#9: A medium length par four: All of the trees have been removed down the left side of the hole between it and #10.  The fairway bunker on the left side has been repositioned, enlarged, and deepened.  The spruce trees removed on #1 are gone from the right side of this hole.  The existing greenside bunkers have been reworked.

[Glenn Spencer]

3 is an absolute EYE-SORE with that building in back of the green, something has to be done about that and soon. Maybe a gigantic picture of Nicklaus when he was in school!! How about the bunker on 1 and those ones on 16. Is this now a Nicklaus course? What are those bunkers there for on 16, was the downsloped rough not enough? 4? I can't bring myself to talk about it again.

[Dub_ONeill]

At the turn: At the turn Jack made brief remarks about how distance, the golf ball and his work.  He said that he always opens each new project (as he did this one) by hitting a ceremonial drive with a persimmon driver made for the occasion.  He said that it does not work with the present golf balls at all because they have been specifically designed for the new metal drivers and only work with them.  This obviously is rather new.  He said that was why he didn't feel there was much difference in'86 between his wooden driver at Augusta and the people using metal woods, because they were all using similar golf balls that were not optimized for a particular club.
He also said that for a long time he was against design that sough to take the driver out of the hands of the big hitters, but that his view is changing.  Part of the reason it is changing is because some players are now able to turn every par four into a driver, wedge and there is no space to fix that on most courses.  He also said that an additional problem is the divergence of the big hitters from the pack.  He said that when he was the longest hitter on tour he only drove the ball about 25-30yds longer than the average tour player.  He said that now that divergence is more like 60yds and that it makes it difficult to design for everyone.  He said one of the solutions, employed at Scarlet, is to create large steep faced fairway bunkers which require long carries into narrow fairways to gain significant advantage.  He said that shorter hitters (I guess average championship players) who wander into these bunkers by design or by error are far enough from the face that they can still play a long shot to the green; however, the big hitter who challenges the 300yds + carry and fails will be in the front of the bunker where he has lost the play to the green.

[Dub_ONeill]

#10: The small trees down the left side have been removed.  There are three deep fairway bunkers down the left side.  The back tee has been moved back along the side of the pro shop so that it sits almost even with the front door.  The greenside bunkers have been reworked.
#11:  This par four is one of the best holes on the course.  There is a new back tee that stretches this hole way out.  I would guess it must now be in the 450yds - 460yds range at least from that tee.  The two left fairway bunkers have been consolidated into one larger one.  All of the evergreen trees behind the green have been removed.  The large bunker that was pushed up on the right side short of the green has been redone so that it now sits as more of a true greenside bunker that is built into the green.  The green has been enlarged on the right side with a new area behind this bunker.  The consensus of the folks I was walking with was that these changes work very well.
#12: This par five is unchanged in length.  The small trees down the left side have been removed and in there place are two or three fairway bunkers.  The hill side green remains and has been made wider, the greenside bunkers have been made much larger and deeper (the one at the left front of the green must be 8' to 10' deep), and some of the back to front slope of the green has been softened.  Jack said this was done because the existing green had become "unplayable" in his view.

[Dub_ONeill]

#13 : There is a new back tee from which the hole plays well over 200yds.  The big changes here were done year before last as part of the tree removal program.  The trees on the hillside left of the green were taken down and the creek banks in front of the green were cleared.  Jack built a very large bunker complex into the hillside to the left of the green where the trees had been.  The front bunkers were redone.  The severe slope from the hillside on left side of the green was softened a little to create a far left pin location that did not exist before.  The green still slopes sharply from left to right.
#14: A big change here as this short par 5 becomes a 470 yd par four and gets a whole new green.  In fact it was played from the forward tee as a par four the last time the men's NCAA tournament was played at Scarlet.  A new forward member's tee has been built part way up the hill and to the right of the existing tee.  I would guess the hole plays uphill  about 420-430yds from there.  The old fairway bunker on the left has been replaced with a new one.  The church pew mounds which had been added some years ago on the right side of the fairway were removed.  A whole new green was built here.  Jack said a new "par four" green was required. It is elevated with a "T" shape (narrow towards the front, widening at the back) so that front pin positions will present a very narrow target unless the ball is played well past the pin which will leave a down hill put on aback to front pitched green. The green is open at the front with severe bunkers on either side.  Playing up hill into the wind Jack did not reach it and Gary did with a 3 wood second shot.
#15: The only change here other than reworking the greenside bunkers was to remove the "O" shaped fairway bunker on the right (outside) of this slight dogleg and build a bunker complex to the inside so that it sits inside the tree line on the left. The fairway has been moved slightly right to create a bit more dogleg.  Jack said his recollection of the hole was that you could just drive it down the left side with impunity because even if you strayed it usually rolled through the trees so far that you had a shot.  Much of this green's surface remains hidden from the fairway, which has always been the hole's best feature.
#16: This is a short par four that doglegs sharply left around a small ravine running as a lateral hazard down the left side.  There is no room to lengthen it.  The undergrowth has been cleaned out of the ravine so that the green is now clearly visible through the trees from the tee.  This green is drivable from some tee setups and wind conditions by elite players and the better view of the green should encourage this (to the detriment of the drivers on the street behind the green).  Otherwise it will often be an iron off the tee for such players. Jack noted that when he played he sometimes hit the green with a three wood.  On the left side just at the end of the ravine two small, deep fairway bunkers have been added for players trying to work the ball around rather than over the dogleg. The second is more penal than the first.  The green previously had a very steep false front on it which has been softened and a new front left position has been created.  The greenside bunkers remain in the same locations, but have been reworked.  
#17: Nothing significant has been done to this par three.  No length was added the bunkers work redone in their same locations.  
#18: The big change here is the new back tee which is now reached by walking off the back of the 17th green.  This makes the hole a very severe right to left dogleg with the possibility to cut off varying amounts by flying the small woods between the tee and the fairway.  Jack said it was the only way to add length to the hole.  The fairway bunker that sat on the right side at the end of the fairway from the old tee was left, but redone.  The green was not changed.  The bunkers were reworked but not relocated.  Jack did not attempt the carry.  Gary attempted a very aggressive line and ended up in the woods with a punch to the front of the green.
I apologize for taking up so much space on this thread, but this seemed to take on a life of its own and having started, I wanted to finish.  I do look forward to playing the course and finding out how it works from the members' tees.

[Lou_Duran]

Dub,

Thanks for the fine effort.  No doubt that the changes will be controversial, but from what I saw in the rough (before grassing last summer) and your detailed description of the finished product, I think it will be a resounding success.

For the most part, did they keep most of the existing back tees?  It will be interesting to see what they come up with when (and if) they rate the course from around 7,100 yards.

With the exception of #17, I don't believe the greens had ever been rebuilt.  I would be curious to learn what other courses had greens 60+ years old.  And it's not like Scarlet was lightly used or pampered.

[Dub_ONeill]

The new scorecard lists the tees as follows:
Buckeye tees - 7444
Black tees - 7103
Gray tees - 6653
White tees - 6264
red tees - 5713
Par 71

[Glenn Spencer]

Don't apologize, that was great work and some of us really appreciate knowing what is going on. I will have ot go and check it for myself. I certainly have to see what happened at 4.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()