Central Park a nice place for a course

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rich Goodale,

Your last idea, # 4, happens to be a good one, and I would suggest that you craft a concise letter to the USGA Executive director and Executive committee proposing same.

I would ask you and others:
Is golf better off today than in the 50's or 60's ?

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

Patrick

Thanks, but I've written a few concise letters to the USGA in the past and never had a reply, and I know that your fellow Doyen waged a multi-year campaign on a very resonable rules issue all in vain.  No more tilting at windmills for me, except on this site.

However, if anybody else wants to take my idea and run with it, go for it.  If you happen to crack the force field that surrounds Far Hills, let me know and I'll chip in to help.

As to the 50's and 60's vs. today, even though I was excluded from playing much golf in those days as my folks didn't belong to a golf club, I think that it was "better" in the sense that all "sports" those days were "better" in that they were done primarily for the love of the game and not for some sort of social or personal statement.

[Matt_Ward]

Rich:

Thanks for your detailed reply.

To borrow your phrase Rich -- "come on."

1. The location of a "people's museum" in NYC will have more visitors and likely a more lasting impact than some PR toting van that boogies across the USA.

2. You're right -- Far Hills doesn't have some sort of mega-importance in golf history -- the USGA's formal offices can be located anywhere -- like I said how about a place in the middle of Kansas -- maybe they can call the NCAA and have a location in Shawnee next to their "centrally" located HQ?

But, Rich, puhhhleeeeezzze drop the idea that once again there's been some sort of self derived snobbery involved here. You may find it hard to believe, but there are folks involved with the USGA today who are somewhat beyond the central question of whether Missy and Howard can have tea served in the Louis Keller room at Baltusrol.

3. The museum belongs in a city that clearly has major league impact -- that's NYC. I don't want to see the museum be reduced to some sort of "theme" park mentality that you often see in so many American cities -- i.e. Orlando, San Antonio, etc.

Since the World Golf Village in St. Augustine is up and running it might be possible to expand the USGA's presence there in order to highlight all the different players.

When you mention Bethpage I truly believe the biggest compliment the USGA pays is in having the game's premier event there.

Look, I don't doubt the USGA has been for the bulk of its existence the group that catered to the bluest of blue bloods. Heck, I know this Rich -- I live in the Northeast and grew up on public courses. No one has to tell me how disconnected the group from Far Hills has been for a number of years. Some even believe it's still disconnected. I think that's changing and I credit David Fay for being the "voice of reason" on a number of issues. Clearly -- more can be done.

But, you might be surprised to know that ALL types of people who traverse the Big Apple may in fact be the ones who do come to the museum and pick up the game. Of course, they can still have a wine and cheese area for all those stuffed shirt types you and I are so enamored with. Rich, just look for me in the corner where they're serving the Bud and pretzels.

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

Matt

Thanks for the reply.  I really do think that the USGa's (our--I'm a member!) would be better spent on a bus (or 20 buses--what can you get for $16 million these days) than an old building in a park which has NO golf courses in it!

Think of the irony.  "Now, Nigel, this picture shows you what a golf course looks like."  "Hey!  That looks like the park!  Why don't they have a golf course in the park?"  "Well Nigel, it's just, well.   Because......"

Don't get me wrong, Matt, I grew up outisde of NYC, worked in the city for 3 summers, have done a lot of work there and love the place.  But, if you were to put the word "golf" in a list of 1000 words and were to ask me which of those words evoked New York, well, "golf" would be very, very far down the list.

I have no idea why the USGA is in Far Hills, but growing up in Fairfield County and knowing quite a bit about the Fortune 500 world, I do strongly suspect why so many of those big companies moved their HQ out there in the 70's and 80's, and it wasn't for the sake of their stockholders.....

Rich

PS--I wonder why the R&A didn't put their golf museum in London?

[John_D._Bernhardt]

I guess the path for the USGA to bring golf to the public is not an easy one. Yet, I do believe with Tiger comes opportunity. The First Tee program is good in fact in some places a very good program. I just think the USGA is going the wrong way in this move to Central Park. Also, the use of money is at best questionable. I am a member and have written a letter or two over the years and none have ever been answered. The people, many friends, I know here who are in the USGA leadership in this part of the world are very nice people and generally have the best interest of the game at heart. However, this is the first time since Arnold P that the game has a chance to really expand its base. All studies indicate the games growth has either slowed or stoped. I think the USGA can provide leadership and help grow the game so to speak. But, this is not going to grow anything but provide a clubhouse in the city and a cash flow negative for the oganization.

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

John

When I was in college I spent one of my summers in NYC in an internship program at one of the world's leading banks.  In one week of that internship my job was to respond (or coordinate the response) to EVERY letter of complaint sent from customers within one of it's geographic areas to the Chairman of that bank.   I (we) had to research the complaint (ranging from stubbed toes in foyers to lost transfers of large sums of money), make sure that everybody in the chain of responsibility was informed and allowed to say their piece, try to get a resolution (AND THE FACTS!), and then draft a letter for the Chairman's signature.  All of this normally took a day or two, and the Chairman did sign each letter (no robopens involved).

The fact that the USGA cannot or chooses to not respond to loyal, intelligent and concerned citizens/members like you (and me, I've tried that route too) is to their eternal detriment.

I say, take some of that $16 million and give the entire organization a series of lessons in common sense and common courtesy.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Rich,

I don't know when you were last here, but NYC is a very different place than it was in the 70's and 80's. Times Square and 57th Street (57th and Russian Tea Room are close to but not in on Central Park) are filled with tourist every day. These two areas have become the Disney/Orlando areas of Manhattan. I doubt that the USGA is going to open a museum in the style of The Guggenheim, The Met or even Far Hills. My guess is that it is going to be more in the style of The NBA Store, ESPN Zone, NikeTown which all draw out of town tourist. All of these places are interactive stores and restaurants that expose people to their respective sports. The NFL open their season in Times Square this year, and last I heard there has never been a football game played in Manhattan.

I think that the USGA is trying to reach out to the masses, invite them in and grow the game. Some on this site may not want to see it, but I do believe that they are following their charter. I am sure they did a number of focus groups before they made this purchase, and I personally look forward to the opening.

[A_Clay_Man]

I'll tell you what would get me behind this expansion of profile. A museum dedicated to educating the masses on COURTESY, ETTIQUETTE and SPEED OF PLAY.

All else would likely be self indulgent and nowhere near what the spirit of the game should/could exemplify.

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

Mike

Last time I was in NYC was about a year ago.  I missed out on Times Square at that time, but I know from you and others that it is a "happening place" now.  The USGA may be right in spending our money in this way, but it may be wrong too.  Only time will tell.

All the best.

Rich

[Patrick_Mucci]

John, Rich, et. al.,

What many seem to be forgetting is that the purchase of a building on 57th street in New York is no different than purchasing any other security subject to market conditions.

It is an expenditure that is maintained on the books as an asset. and its re-sale value fluctuates with market conditions, just like bonds.

In addition, perhaps very little intitial money will be spent, with a mortgage funding most of the cost.

This is a non-event.

[Matt_Ward]

Gentlemen:

I don't doubt that any organization needs to always do a bit of self-introspection on how it communicates. John, I would be no less miffed if I sent a few letters and never even got the courtesy of a "robopen" (love the expression Rich!) response.

The key for me on this issue is this:

Does a NYC location help build golf to the masses in a consistent and continuous manner? I believe it does.

As Mike has pointed out the marketization and mass appeal of Times Square has clearly changed in the last number of years. The area is now the center point where major products, groups and branding of consumer issues is carried out. Clearly, the USGA will gain more visitors than it ever could by continuing in Far Hills. And, I also believe that although having some sort of tour around the country sounds good -- the real lasting impact will be at best temporary.

I would hope that any "museum" in NYC not take the form and shape of the type of stuffy museum Rich alluded to earlier on this thread. A modern "museum" needs to be completely user-friendly and allow the average man / woman / young person a porthole to seeing what golf is about.

In plain terms -- the "museum" should not simply exist to promote the USGA -- but to promote golf and constantly reinforce the message on how golf can be so much fun as an individual, family or with those you meet for the first time while playing.

The "museum" should give consumers information on how to find the appropriate person to provide lessons, getting fitted for the right equipment and other actual golf related issues. It should not be just about beating to death who formed the USGA and all the other arcane matters. Yes, they need to play a role but the central focus should be in building the message that golf is fun and a game worthy of one's time and $$.

Clearly, if those involved with the project took a visit to the other "theme" related promotions in Times Square they can get a good idea on what works and what will be appropriate for promoting golf in the 21st century.

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

Matt

Well argued, but....I'm just old enough to paraphase what Chou en Lai said in the 1950's when he was asked what he thought about the French Revolution--''It's too early to tell."

Patrick

If the USGA could get a better risk-adjusted return from putting their $16 million into turning a pig farm in Arkansas into the Clinton Mulliganland Theme Park, or a alfalfa farm on the Main Line into the TE Paul Maintenance Meld Megastore or a Potato Farm on Northereastern LI into Friar's Head (oops, somebody's already done that!), should they?  Just wondering.......

[Mike_Sweeney]

Things in New York takes time, my guess is 18 months before they open. That puts us in May 2004 for the opening of USGA Tea Room. Hmmmm... The US Open is at Shinnecock in June of 2004, and The US Amateur is at Winged Foot in August of 2004. Sounds like Katie Couric and her caddy Matt Laurer will be hitting golf balls in Rockerfeller Center on The Today Show that summer alot with David Fay and Tiger Woods !!

Let's give the USGA some credit they had the vision and execution to take a very good public course (Bethpage) that had never hosted a significant public or private tournament, and turned it into a very successful US Open.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Rich,

The USGA has several different traveling exhibitions and collections. They have visited over 100 sites in 36 states.(source: USGA website)

From 1997 through year 2000 the USGA has awarded grants totaling some 20 million dollars. Tha's a tidy sum. The grants went up from  about 400k in '96 to 3.4 million in '97.(source: USGA website)

Taking their "stuff" to NYC is a smart move.
Quite a number of years ago Dick Stranahan was either the historian or the curator, I can't remember which, at the PGA Golf Museum when it was located in Pinehurst. Prior to this he was the Pro at Wyantenuck GC in Ma.. We had some mutual friends, one of whom asked me to say hello to him knowing I was making the trip down. I spent a couple of hours there in his company and remember his wish that more people would get to see what was on display. You would think that this place would do well, I mean, it was in Pinehurst for heaven's sake, but visitors just weren't coming there, especially in the off or shoulder seasons. Attendance is up considerably since the move to St. Augustine, unfortunately Dick Stranahan was forgotten in that move, another story....

  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rich Goodale,

It's about more than ROI.

But, some were complaining about the amount of money spent, and I felt it only fair to respond to those criticisms, in a financial context.

How many individuals will pass by the locations you cite as compared to 57th street in NYC ?

NYC, especially 57th street, a two way major east-west thorougfare, probably has millions of people a year passing by.

[Doug Wright]

Jim,

It's too bad your friend Dick didn't accompany the PGA exhibits to St. Augiustine. Ever been there? I was singularly unimpressed with what they've done there. The exhibits and space are very sterile and unexciting IMO.

By the way, Central Park would be a great place for a golf course. The rolling drumlins are a bitch during the 23rd and 24th miles of the NYC Marathon...

All The Best,

[Rich Goodale (Guest)]

"........and last I heard there has never been a football game played in Manhattan."

Mike

Never say "never!"

The NY Titans (now Jets) used to play at the Polo Grounds in Manhattan, as did (I think) the Giants before them.

A good long term memory is just one of the benefits to growing old......

[Mike_Sweeney]

Rich,

I thought I might get nailed on that after I posted it. My excuse is I grew up in Philly, this my affinity towards Merion and the Philadelphia Eagles.