Changing the hole sequence

[Chris_Clouser]

I was looking at something today and was wondering how often clubs change the hole sequence of the course if it would be something that could be done easily.  The example I can think of off the top of my head would be the back nine at Southern Hills.  Would the course be significantly better if after the 11th hole you played the current 16th, 14th and 15th then came back to the current 12th, 13th then finish with 17 and 18?  I would think so as the stretch of 14 - 16 would come a little earlier in the round and put better holes towards the back of the routing for possibly a better group of finishing holes.

Can anyone think of instances where this could occur or has occured and what impact did it have on those courses?

[Kevin_Reilly]

Locally, for years Harding Park's second required a short walk from the first green to a short straightaway par 4.  Then about 10-15 years ago they changed the order so that the then-7th hole became the 2nd, and the 2nd became the 7th. I believe this change was made in the interest of speeding play along from the first to the second hole.  Both the 2nd and the 7th were very similar holes, so there wasn't a strategic element to the change.

I understand that with the new renovation they are returning to the old order.

[TEPaul]

Philadephia Country Club (Flynn) changed their routing sequence, although with the exception of one hole (I think), the holes are all the same. The reason was the clubhouse site was moved to the other side of the property.

As to whether it plays better now or before, I couldn't say--I never played it the way it once was--I'm old but not that old.

We should have asked Sam Snead about that though--maybe he would have said if he could have played it the way it is now he definitely would have won a US Open!

Green Valley (another Flynn Philly course) changed their routing sequence too because they changed the location of the clubhouse.

I don't know what it is about Flynn courses and changing the location of the clubhouse but at least I think the routing sequence and clubhouse at Shinnecock is safe!

[Chris_Clouser]

Tom,

I wonder if you're finding an odd occurence that I seemed to find in my Maxwell research.  I have found at least 10 clubs (14 at last count) that Maxwell worked at where their clubhouses burned down over the years.  I am curious if that is what is causing the number of Flynn courses changing the location of the clubhouse or not.  Was this a widespread problem during that period or were the courses touched by Maxwell cursed in this way?

Chris

[TEPaul]

Chris:

To find the answer to that question of why an unusual amount of clubhouses on courses that Maxwell worked on burned down, I suggest you turn to the Maxwell bio in Cornish and Whitten's book and look for a while at the photograph of Perry Maxwell above the bio. After a certain amount of staring at his photo the answer will probably come to you!

[Allan Long]

The only course that comes to mind quickly is the Tournament North course at Kaanapali on Maui. Since it opened in 1962 I can think of at least two times the sequence of the holes has changed. When I asked why they had changed, I believe they said it was done to give the course a better flow. The course has a street bisecting it, and the only thing I could think of is that they wanted it to keep the sequence of holes closer together.