[Dan Kelly]

Elder statesman Ben Crenshaw (decent architect, too, I'm told) stands at 2-under par through 20 holes of the 2006 Masters.

Superannuated statesman Charles Coody is even par through 14 holes of the second round of 2006 Masters.

Does this invalidate, once and for all, the conventional-wisdom argument that only the bombers can contend (and, therefore, win) at Augusta?

I think it does.

[Garland Bayley]

Or does it validate the argument that the masters should not be a major, because those who have played there the most often have too big an advantage?

[Voytek Wilczak]

Elder statesman Ben Crenshaw (decent architect, too, I'm told) stands at 2-under par through 20 holes of the 2006 Masters.

Superannuated statesman Charles Coody is even par through 14 holes of the second round of 2006 Masters.

Does this invalidate, once and for all, the conventional-wisdom argument that only the bombers can contend (and, therefore, win) at Augusta?

I think it does.

Let's see who actually wins to close that case.

[JohnH]

Give me a break.  Coody shot 89 yesterday.  Crenshaw's 71 yesterday was his first round under par at Augusta since his final round in '95 when he won.

[Brad Klein]

I saw Coody on Tuesday and didn't think he looked very good physically, and my hunch was confirmed when he shot 89 Thursday. Now he's on his way to shooting 71 or 72. Good for him.

I think it proves that these guys have their days. The difference is that when a crack Tour pro has an odd day, he shoots 80+, and when a veteran pro beyond his competitive days has HIS day he's capable of going very low once in a  while. I don't think that proves anything about the Masters or ANGC, however.

[Dan Kelly]

So: You gentlemen are saying that a short hitter can play Augusta for one day, or maybe two, but not for four?

Why do you think that?

I'm certainly not suggesting that Crenshaw or Coody could do it. I AM suggesting that a relatively short hitter, playing at the top of his game, could win the Masters -- still, even now, in 2006.

DiMarco is a relatively short hitter. He certainly could have won last year.

Weir is a relatively short hitter. He did win three years ago.

I look at the current leaderboard, and I see a bunch of guys near the top who aren't bombers.

[JohnH]

Agreed for the most part Brad, I would just like to add that in my opinion it is more likely for someone like Vijay or Ernie to shoot 80 at ANGC, than for a Charles Coody to shoot 65.  I think that does say something about Augusta.

Dan, I was only responding to Crenshaw and Coody, like you were in your original post.  It is not my belief that only a bomber can contend there.

[tlavin]

I think the knee-jerk reactions of Nicklaus and others that the changes at Augusta make it a bombers paradise are a bit of golf hyperbole.  Let's face it, most golf courses are a bit easier for somebody who hits a long ball.  Jack fricking Nicklaus should be the last to complain: in his day he surely was a bomber playing courses that favored the big hitter.  That said, surely everybody agrees that you can't win the Masters without a spectacular week on and around the greens.  He who pitches and putts the best will surely win.  The long hitter may occasionally get a big boost because of the distance of the shots into the green, but you still have to work the flat stick.

To me the better question is whether Coody should be anywhere but in the clubhouse.  I think the answer is "No".  The Masters field is already weak without the old guys.  Crenshaw still has game.  Coody is an aging curiosity, nothing more.  This is a major, we shouldn't have curiosities in the field.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I agree with the award winning Brad, and will add that when I have followed the careers of aging PGA Tour (or senior tour) stars, it seems like there demise starts out as one bad round of four, whereas the winner (and younger guys who finish high) have four good rounds.  At that period of time, we might think our heros still have it, and had some bad luck, but in reality they are starting to lose "it."

A few years later, its two bad rounds, with one after making the cut, and then its two bad rounds to miss the cut....

In other words, one good round doesn't make an old wheezer competitive!

[Dan Kelly]

I think at least several of you gents are missing my point!

My point has nothing to do with old wheezers. Nothing!

It has to do with the conventional-wisdom view of Augusta National -- which suggests, in a nutshell, that it is (and is becoming more and more so, as Mr. Fazio makes his amendments) a course for the Big Bombers.

I am merely suggesting that that view is fatally flawed -- as Messrs. Coody and Crenshaw are demonstrating. If guys as old and short as they are can play the course for EVEN A DAY OR TWO, that invalidates (IMO) the view that Mr. Fazio and his co-conspirators have deprived us of a golf course on which many sorts of players can contend.

[Brad Klein]

Dan, the point I'm trying to make is that these guys have such good muscle memory and body training in them (still) that they can every once in a while conjure up a heck of a good score, and that you cannot prove anything about a golf course based upon how (ex)-Tour players play it on one day.

[Brent Hutto]

Dan, the point I'm trying to make is that these guys have such good muscle memory and body training in them (still) that they can every once in a while conjure up a heck of a good score, and that you cannot prove anything about a golf course based upon how (ex)-Tour players play it on one day.

Brad,

Do you think if Charles Coody had been in the field at Baltusrol last year it would have been even remotely possible for him to shoot a 74? Would Bethpage Black in a US Open setup be a place where a 71 is possible for Ben Crenshaw?

If not, then why doesn't that difference say something about Augusta National and the Masters relative to other courses and other majors?

[Voytek Wilczak]

I think at least several of you gents are missing my point!

My point has nothing to do with old wheezers. Nothing!

It has to do with the conventional-wisdom view of Augusta National -- which suggests, in a nutshell, that it is (and is becoming more and more so, as Mr. Fazio makes his amendments) a course for the Big Bombers.

I am merely suggesting that that view is fatally flawed -- as Messrs. Coody and Crenshaw are demonstrating. If guys as old and short as they are can play the course for EVEN A DAY OR TWO, that invalidates (IMO) the view that Mr. Fazio and his co-conspirators have deprived us of a golf course on which many sorts of players can contend.

Your point is not missed.

You just need more than two data points (Coody, Crenshaw) to make a certain blanket statement and "close the case".

Bottom line - you need more data (player's stats, rounds played, winner's length off the tee, etc) over several years to close the case.

Even if Mike Weir wins on Sunday, the case won't be closed.

People who say that a short hitter positively CANNOT win the Masters this year are idiots.

Of course a short hitter can win - but the course changes have made it less likely.

Only time and statistics will tell.

Case NOT closed.

[John Kirk]

I think the knee-jerk reactions of Nicklaus and others that the changes at Augusta make it a bombers paradise are a bit of golf hyperbole.  Let's face it, most golf courses are a bit easier for somebody who hits a long ball.  Jack fricking Nicklaus should be the last to complain: in his day he surely was a bomber playing courses that favored the big hitter.  That said, surely everybody agrees that you can't win the Masters without a spectacular week on and around the greens.  He who pitches and putts the best will surely win.  The long hitter may occasionally get a big boost because of the distance of the shots into the green, but you still have to work the flat stick.

To me the better question is whether Coody should be anywhere but in the clubhouse.  I think the answer is "No".  The Masters field is already weak without the old guys.  Crenshaw still has game.  Coody is an aging curiosity, nothing more.  This is a major, we shouldn't have curiosities in the field.

Terry,

If Charles Coody were a spectator, we would never have had the pleasure of seeing the old man play this great round of golf.  In addition, I imagine Mr. Coody will remember today as one of his great days of golf.  I think the lifetime exemption creates this unique and oddly compelling sports achievement.

I believe your point is valid, but I enjoy this particular curiosity.  I think we all appreciate the fact that golf is a lifetime sport.

John

[Peter Pallotta]

I'm agreeing with Dan on this one, and I think you fellas are making it way too complicated.

That a 68 year old man, and a 54 year old who even in his prime was a short hitter, can get around a major-championship-prepared course in even CLOSE to par, for even ONE SINGLE day, tells me that the course is NOT too long.  

I think Charles Coody should take a seat by the club house door, and every player under 68 years old who comes off the course should stop by, shake his hand and say "Man, we must sound like a bunch of cry-babies to you, Mr. Coody".

Peter

[tlavin]

John,

Well said.

[tonyt]

The current players, the current top dozen or so on the planet draw as much from the past champions invitation as the oldies.

When Phil won, his first joyous reaction in the cabin was that he could always come back. And most winners of the past decade have said the same darned thing.

Sometimes you have to look behind the obvious. The invitations to the past winners gives a prestigious awe to those fighting it out on Sunday afternoon. So forget the 80s shot on Thursdays and give it its dues for how much it is a part of the joy in the 67s on Sunday.

In all the "weak field", "old codgers" and "weird oddities" threads about The Masters, it is like many want this event to become yet another boring copy from exactly the same mould as every other week after week relevant or irrelevant full field event. This tournament is different and has class. Some of the class is fantastic and some of it puff, and many here choose to see through it. But many of us love The Masters, and love is about seeing right through something and still enjoying the view.

[Jason Blasberg]

Give me a break.  Coody shot 89 yesterday.  Crenshaw's 71 yesterday was his first round under par at Augusta since his final round in '95 when he won.

What do you have to say about Ben's level par round today?

[Rick Shefchik]

Ray Floyd beat John Daly by one shot over the first two days, +8 to +9.

John Daly might not be a great test case for anything, but how many of you would have bet that would happen before they teed off Thursday?

Maybe that's why we love the Masters: there are so many ways to skin this cat, even Fazio and 400 more yards can't alter the tournament's fundamental nature.

[Mike_Young]

Dan,
I don't think anything less then 72 holes validates the tournament.  I also am not one of those that thinks length keeps shorter players from contention.  I am  one that thinks putting is and always will be the key  but when a golf course is set up whereby all are playing it defensively and not attacking it, there will be days when the shorter or older players will score well.  It just takes a few long putts.  BUT I think the biggest thing that guys such as Ben C and C Coody have going for them is that they are not there to compete (IMHO) and are thus playing golf and not  competitive golf...and there is a big difference.....JMO

[Jason Blasberg]

BUT I think the biggest thing that guys such as Ben C and C Coody have going for them is that they are not there to compete (IMHO) and are thus playing golf and not  competitive golf...and there is a big difference.....JMO

Mike:

Did you see Ben C's reaction when he missed the birdie on 18 today . . . I don't think anyone told him he's not playing competitve golf.  Your observation in accurate re: Coody but
Ben. . . that's off mark IMO  

Jason

[Mike_Young]

Jason,
I saw the reaction.  But I still don't think he views the Masters as though he were a serious competitor ( and I have much respect for BC)  the guys that are trying to position temselves for sunday view each shot in a totally different light.  Golf and competitive golf are two entirely different games.....JMO
How are you doing...been down this way?

[David Kelly]

Sample size, gentlemen, sample size.

[Jason Blasberg]

Mike:

I've been well, thanks.  Haven't been down to your neck of the woods since the Fall but hopefully will be down this Summer (early Summer )

Hope all is well with the Bulldogs!

Jason

[Mike_Young]

Come on down Jason but gosh why do all you guys up there think we got to like those Bulldogs because we live in Athens.....that barking gets old..around here....I had two guys come thru here in some LSU garb last week and they caused quite a stir....I had to take them by the liquor store and usher them out of town so they could get to Cusco to watch LSU play BB.  You may know one of them....calls himself Tiger

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