When is cost just too much?

[Jordan Wall]

Pebble $450

Shadow Creek $500

Whistling Straits $350

...

When is the price of a course simply too much??  Sometimes, even for once in a lifetime courses, the money is just too much...IMO...

[Tom Huckaby]

Jordan:

Everyone has different thresholds, different economic realities.  For many in this forum, there is no such thing as too much.

Personally my wife would chop my nuts off if I spent $500 to play one round at one golf course.  But she has understood completely (well, after some wailing and gnashing of teeth) when I spent 5 times that amount to do a grand tour of the great courses of Scotland.  It's all in not putting too much of a price tag on life-changing experiences.

TH

[Jordan Wall]

Tom,

I understand 2500$ for Scotland but in my entire life I have never spent anything for 500$ involving golf-especially not a round.  With dad and I thats 1000$...WOW

[John Kavanaugh]

Many if not at least 25% of all members of private clubs pay that much per round at much less interesting courses..

[Jason Mandel]

jordan,

how much was it when you and your dad played Kapalua?

i played pebble once with my dad and that included staying at the lodge for a night, caddy, the whole 9 yards.  I wouldn't do it everyday, but it sure was one memorable experience that i will NEVER forget.

jason

[Tom Huckaby]

Jordan - you're young - let's have this conversation again (adjusted for inflation) when you're 42 like me.

Because John is right.  Put it on a per-round basis and MANY private clubs are well over $500 - most here in CA.

It's all a matter of threshold.  You think Bill Gates gives a damn what a round of golf costs?

TH

ps - Jason hits on another key aspect of this - one truly can't put a price-tag on life-changing experiences like that.  i did the same with my Dad and well... cost was a lot less than now, but it was still a lot... and I wouldn't change a thing either.

[rjsimper]

It's all relative.  There is no such thing as "too much" at a viable golf facility.  If there was, then courses charging "too much" would not be in business, or at least deep in the red.

Pebble could charge $1000 a round and probably get away with it.

Can I make a really small request, Jordan?  Can you please put the $ in front of the number rather than behind it.  Maybe my cringe reflex is too honed in today, but that's one you'll want to keep in your pocket.

[David_Tepper]

Jordan -

It has been my observed experience that some things, especially status/luxury items, are easier to sell by charging MORE rather than by charging less. A sizeable portion of the golf market is conceived and marketed as a status/luxury item.

You should be aware there are very few open/unused tee-times at Pebble. Many someones (or someones' shareholders) are paying those green fees.  

DT  

[Matt_Cohn]

There's no answer to this question.

A successful CEO who makes $1,000,000 might say that an hour's pay is a ridiculous price for a nice dinner at Masa or for a round of golf. For him or her, that's $500. They'll say it's just too much money.

Meanwhile, I expect to spend two hours wages to get a nice meal or play golf on a decent course. That's $30-$40. But I do that often, especially for golf. I'd spend six or eight hours' pay to play Pebble Beach or Pacific Dunes.

For our hypothetical CEO, that's $4,000 on a round of golf.

Looking at it the other way, the CEO's $450 green fee at Pebble Beach is the equivalent of about $14 for me. I'd do it every day, except for the days when I felt like spending $5 to play Pasatiempo instead!

The cost is too much whenever you think it is. How much money do you have? How much do you want the experience?

[Sean Leary]

Jordan -

It has been my observed experience that some things, especially status/luxury items, are easier to sell by charging MORE rather than by charging less. A sizeable portion of the golf market is conceived and marketed as a status/luxury item.

You should be aware there are very few open/unused tee-times at Pebble. Many someones (or someones' shareholders) are paying those green fees.  

DT  

To reaffirm this, at Chateau Whistler (RTJ 2) in Whistler BC, they had lower fees than the nearby Nicklaus North when they opened 10 years ago or so. This was done based on the thought the Nicklaus name could carry a higher fee.  CW was not busy compared to  NN , even with the lower fee.  They raised their rates to match NN and the demand and rounds played went way up.  Basically travelers were looking at the cost and assuming that NN was the much better course so they played there only. Now it is pretty even....

[John Keenan]

The issue of experience is a good one. Do people play Pebble to experience it themselves or rather to tell others they have?  Many other courses on the Peninsula are excellent (apologies to all PB fans) but none carry the cache of PB.

Mr. Tepper is correct by having a high price you position yourself above the fray. PB does this quite well

[Jordan Wall]

jordan,

how much was it when you and your dad played Kapalua?

i played pebble once with my dad and that included staying at the lodge for a night, caddy, the whole 9 yards.  I wouldn't do it everyday, but it sure was one memorable experience that i will NEVER forget.

jason

My Aunt actually surprised Dad and I when we went to play Kapalua and as we went to pay, the guy at the pro shop goes, "Do you know this lady..."??  I was like yea, but why would you want to know.  He said, well it looks like she has paid your greens fees.  I think she did that for a couple reasons but probably for the only reason Dad and I played the Plantation in the first place--my grades were over a 3.8 average, and at the beginning of the school year that was what we decided I needed to get to play the Plantation... Anyways, that was cool.

If we had paid it would have been probably $400 because we did twilight--$250 was way too much even...

I think the only problem with oober high greens fees is that even though people hear about the course some people will not play it due to money.  How many people do you think have been to Pebble yet not played the course because of price??  How about Shadow Creek?  Cascata is even 500$

[Jordan Wall]

Also, if World Woods only charges 50$ in the winter and just over 100$ summer time, why cant other courses be like that.  I believe many GCA'ers think WW is a great course!

[John Kavanaugh]

Why doesn't Rustic Canyon charge more...Is there more than economics working here..Is the owner some kind of golfing philanthropist..

[Pete Lavallee]

Why doesn't Rustic Canyon charge more...Is there more than economics working here..Is the owner some kind of golfing philanthropist..

Barney,

Please don't blow the only good deal we have out here!

[Craig Van Egmond]

You know the old saying... If you have to ask then you can't afford it.  

[Mike Hoak]

I am currently pondering this question myself.  My brother-in-law, his brother, and his father have had a August trip to Pebble in the works for over a year.  Last month, one member of their foursome had to drop out, so they approached me about taking his place.  I jumped on the chance, before even  thinking about the inevitable and dreaded conversation with my wife.  

We are staying at Spanish Bay two nights while playing one round at Pebble and one at Spyglass (I'm also considering throwing in a 3rd round at Pasatiempo, but that's a whole other story).  The grand total (and this is sharing the cost of one of the rooms) is $1290 before taxes and caddie fees.  

The wife was oddly supportive and said I should I do it.  I normally would never spend that much on a round of golf, but I'm justifying it on the basis that Pebble is a once in a lifetime opportunity.  Of course, that is the same reasoning I used for exorbitant greens fees at Harbour Town, Kiawah, and Kapalua.

[Mark_F]

Doesn't golf in America revolve entirely around cost?

Expensive resort courses.

Entry fees in the six figures.

Annual subs in high five figures.

Top coaches charging thousands per session.

American golf seems obsessed with golf as status symbol.

[Tom Huckaby]

Mark - those are very good questions, and points.

In general golf does cost way too much here - although I'd say status is just one of the reasons, and a minor one at that.

Hmmmm... isn't someone here lobbying hard lately for a return to affordable, walkable golf?

Now who might that be?
 

TH

[Bob_Huntley]

There is no price too high for those who want something, can get it and enjoy it.

Some friends of mine will pay obscene (to me) sums of money to drink very old single malt whiskys. Others circumvent the Trading with the Enemy Act or something like it to smoke Cuban cigars, again at an astounding price. The single malt, sipped correctly can last something like fifteen minutes. At sixty dollars a glass thats four bucks a minute...$450.00 for four hours around Pebble Beach seems like an absolute bargain.

We all have idiosyncrasies that can be unfathomable. I know of one rather wealthy man who uses a tea bag ten times but will then go out and bid up a painting at Sothebys for some astronomical amount.

I am much older than most here, but I have never looked back and said I paid too much for something I wanted to see, hear or do. A year later the price doesn't seem to matter.

Bob

[Bob_Huntley]

There is no price too high for those who want something, can get it and enjoy it.

Some friends of mine will pay obscene (to me) sums of money to drink very old single malt whiskys. Others circumvent the Trading with the Enemy Act or something like it to smoke Cuban cigars, again at an astounding price. The single malt, sipped correctly can last something like fifteen minutes. At sixty dollars a glass thats four bucks a minute...$450.00 for four hours around Pebble Beach seems like an absolute bargain.

We all have idiosyncrasies that can be unfathomable. I know of one rather wealthy man who uses a tea bag ten times but will then go out and bid up a painting at Sothebys for some astronomical amount.

I am much older than most here, but I have never looked back and said I paid too much for something I wanted to see, hear or do. A year later the price doesn't seem to matter.

Bob

[Sean Leary]

I am much older than most here, but I have never looked back and said I paid too much for something I wanted to see, hear or do. A year later the price doesn't seem to matter.

Bob

Bob,

Well said, oh wise one...

[Sean_A]

I very good friend of mine has the following comment about spending money (imagine with a Cantonese accent); "Shau, yu onry spoil yusef-ha ha".  

I know for myself that too much was The Deuce.  The course was good (maybe even great), but the experience was a let down.  Whatever a place needs to have that certain something was lacking at Pinehurst.

Ciao

Sean

[Chris Kane]

Its disappointing when these courses charge huge green fees, but they live by the sword - if they charge too much they will pay the price.

I'm going to England and Scotland in July, and have found the green fees to be extraordinary by Australian standards.  The cheapest Open venue is Carnoustie at £105 - which translates to around $A250 - about one-third of my wage over summer to pay for this!  The number of times over twelve months that I spend that much money for a game of golf will be very small!

There are very few courses of note for under £60, except in remote areas.  Conversely, playing with a member tends to be very cheap - less than what it would cost at a top club in Australia.  Good luck to any club that can rip-off gullible American trophy hunters to ensure a better deal for their members!

[Pete Lavallee]

Chris,

What would an unaccompanied American expect to pay to play the best the Sandbelt has to offer?