is the TPC THAT good????

[PThomas]

number 12 of GW's Modern list

I haven't played yet , but for those who have, I'd love to hear your opinions of it

[Jordan Wall]

Maybe-Maybe not...

...I havent played it yet

But one thing I can tell you is that I think about where my tee ball will end up on 17 and I probably wont play it for years...

...at least for me, there is not really a hole like #17 at Sawgrass where I constantly think about where my ball is going years before I even hit the shot

I guess it may be or may not be good enough for #12 on the modern list.  That isnt for me to decide.  But very rarely do courses or specific holes bug me like 17 bugs me, which is very special.  To me at least, that tells a lot about the course when it kills you before you even play it!!

[ForkaB]

To me the best comparison (in terms of ambition, size, creativity, etc.) is Pacific Dunes.  IMO, there is not a dime's worth of distance between the two of them.  Both great in their own right and in their own way.

So, yes...TPC is "THAT good."

[George_Bahto]

I've played it any number of times - it is easilt in my top 6 or 7

after my first visit I told my wife that if I ever ran away from home, you 'd have a pretty good chance of finding me there

too bad they softened up over the years ....   I think I was first there just after the first "whining"

[George Pazin]

I knew Rich would respond, I've always enjoyed reading his posts on the course.

I haven't had the pleasure, yet, but I will add that the tournament remains one of the few outside of the majors that I make an effort to watch.

Someone posted the other day that Tour pros don't seem to care about angles anymore. Seems like they do at TPC Sawgrass. Maybe the rest of the courses just lack the necessary design elements.

[George_Bahto]

while we're at it why not anyone interested in doing so, list what you think are the two best holes, architecturally

not in order, mine would be:

Hole #11         Hole #16    oh my, there are so many

[ForkaB]

I think I was first there just after the first "whining"

George

I was first there just before the first "whining."  It was the hardest course I had ever seen.  When Jerry Pate shot -8, I knew that those guys were not just "good" but otherwordly......

Yes, it's easier now, but still "itself."

[Ian Andrew]

It is.

I think the knock is the modern look, but underneath are wonderful strategies and a lot of the quirk we all seem to clamor for. I found the golf course very balanced; you needed to hit draws and fades, and there was a reward for being creative. The greens have a mix of sizes and some excellent contour; and the place is a lot of fun to play. Definately a great course.

[Kerry Gray]

I have mixed feelings about the place.
Is it great for what it was designed for? Yes. It is designed as a very tough test for the pros and suceeds in that measure.
I personally think it has many arcitectural strengths including the angling of the fairways and green structures.
But is has some very strange aspects like the very articficial mounding found beside several greens like #1. The mound on the left side of #12 (Mount TPC as we called it) looks silly.
It certainly has been hugely influencial which may make it great in some opinions.
How does it play for the everyday player? I think it is not overly difficult. The open access to the greens and limited carries over water make it playable. Would I want to play it everyday? Not likely. I would likely end up going postal on some of that mounding.
I respect it for what it was designed for and give Pete Dye credit for making an interesting course out of a swamp. He sure got us talking!
But it has several weaknesses so I say it is very good, but not great.

Kerry.

[Jim Franklin]

I really enjoyed my one round there. #17 was in my mind the ENTIRE day. After I knocked it on in two on #16 and made the putt, I proceeded to knock it in the water on 17 for a double. What a bummer. I don't have it in my top 30 though and I do have Pacific Dunes in my top 10.

[Doug Sobieski]

To me, yes it's that good. Each time I've played it I've grown more fond of it, and I can't wait to get back there (it's been several years).

#9 may be my favorite hole to play, as well as watch the Tour players. I sat there for several hours one Saturday during the tournament, and was amazed at how few players could give themselves a reasonable birdie putt. For a par 5 to give the best players fits like that, it's got to be good!!

[David_Tepper]

While this may or may not speak to the quality of TPC as a golf course, it is interesting to note that 18 of the 24 Players Championships held at TPC have been won by golfers who have won at least one major. Those golfers (Kite, Elkington{2x), Price, Norman, Woods, Duval, Love{2x}, Couples{2x}, Sutton{2x}, Leonard, Pate, Lyle, Mahaffey & Janzen) make a pretty impressive list of winners, one that stacks up rather well against any other championship venue. Craig Perks is just about the only "fluke" winner of the event.

   

[A_Clay_Man]

I'll echo George's sentiments about #11 & #16.

And throw in that #1 may be the best par 4 out there.

[Jason Topp]

I don't know.  I have not ever thought of it as an elite course, probably because there is nothing traditional about it.  Nonetheless, that is a bias that probably should be discarded.

The par threes and fives are terrific.  It is less penal than I thought it would be.  

The course has nice variety.  I do not think you play two holes in a row that are similar in any respect.

On par fours, the fairways are very narrow, largely eliminating options off the tee other than trying to put it in play.

Poor players will shoot huge numbers there due to the difficulty of the bunkering and the rough.

Nonetheless, there are many courses I would prefer to play.

[Matt MacIver]

Echo #11 and #16.  While I was thinking about #17 the whole way 'round, I also eagerly anticipated #11, really wanting to be able to go for green in two...alas, a poor drive didn't permit it.  I really didn't realize how good #16 was until I played it.  

Obvious shout-out to #18, two tough shots, but also #12 with the large mound (hill?) blocking out most of the green unless you hit an exacting tee ball.  

It's in my Top 10 modern, but I haven't played all that many, suspect it wouldn't be if I had....maybe top 20.  Generally love the back, hate the front.  

[Jay Flemma]

I love the course. I play it almost every new years in Jan when its dormant and noone is out there.  Great stuff.

Lets not forget 4 and 9...very interesting holes.

The wholes there, is even greater than the considerable sum of the parts.

[David Panzarasa]

My family has a place there and I simply love the course. One thing I like about it (which I have heard from others as well) is that your in Florida but really has no florida feel to it, which in my mind is a good thing.
 I love the 4th hole. Short par 4, trouble on both sides of the fairway, nice approach shot and great green. I remember seeing Tiger plunk it into the water on his approach a couple years back, and as simple a hole as it seems, it can hold its own. 16 is really a nice one as well.

[Tom Roewer]

Jay  Im with you.  I really think #9 is great and #4 makes you think.   I've played there lots of times both for enjoyment and in pro-ams and can't think of a bad experience.

[mikes1160]

I think the first two holes are average - especially #2, an awkward par five that starts out of this incredibly tight chute, then winds around an awkward waste/water area. But after that, the course just takes off....I've always like #11.......

[Gerry B]

i thought it was very good - but not in my top 10 - however i understand why many love the place.

the angles and strategic options are great and agree that #4 is a beauty as is # 16

note: last time I was there the course was in very poor condition which detracted from the overall experience

[ChipOat]

I think it is that good; in my Top 10+ even though only 2 rounds played.

Too hard to play every day in the wind but so is Shinnecock.  Besides, it isn't always windy there.

[Kerry Gray]

I think the first two holes are average - especially #2, an awkward par five that starts out of this incredibly tight chute, then winds around an awkward waste/water area. But after that, the course just takes off....I've always like #11.......

Mike,
I played TPC in November and I thought the trees on the left of #2 needed to be trimmed. You had to hit a draw off the tee or you would go into the hazzard on the right. The other alternative was 3 wood or less to avoid reaching the hazzard. In that sense has it become a forced shot?
Kerry.

[SL_Solow]

I like it very much as well.  As noted it is very difficult but there is usually room to play.  Lots of choices.  Interesting in that it illustrates the "great big world" theorem.  I usually prefer older courses with a minimum of earth moving.  Here a swamp was turned upside down and every feature is man made.  Moreover, as noted by others, they are obviously man made.  Nonetheless, the playing characteristics of the course are such that I enjoyed it immensely.

[George_Bahto]

The green on 4 is so very good

Pete inserts a lot of classic strategies in his layouts and to me that's what makes his designs so good. He is one of my favorites.

He's a big Raynor fan and while in the Midwest played a lot of Camargo.

He's indicated he do a Foreword for my "Raynor-book"

A thought on 18:

Very cool drive. First time there I drove thru the fairway, over the mounds on the right and on the downslope short of the cartpath. Looking at the line to the green and the way the green was sitting out there (a Cape green, to me), I hit a low runner exactly where I thought I should play to.

Yeah well, the approach slopes so much toward the water on the left, the RR ties barely stopped my ball.

From then on, it was "just bail out" to the mounds on the right short of the green.

He is just continuing to play with you head around his golf courses.

[Wayne Freeman]

I thought TPC was great in many ways. I loved the whole atmosphere and feeling part of the great spectacle that takes place there every year.  It certainly is one of the most visually intimidating courses I have ever played. It just seems that when you look out onto the fairways, you only see mostly sand or water-  only slivers of fairway.  I played in a 2 club wind and felt the finishing holes were as tough a set as you could ask for.  Loved 17 and hit a sweet nine iron to the front pin from the pro tee for my par. Having played a lot of the top courses, it's not in my top 10 modern but still very highly regarded.