"The Jeff" Jeffersonville Golf Club

[Kyle Harris]

Everytime I play here, the course gets better in my eye. There's a lot of depth and some wonderful greens.

Yesterday in the wind it played about as fun as any golf course I've ever been on. So much so that Mike Cirba and I played an extra 7 after we had finished.

Skillful iron play is rewarded in the fashion of any other Ross course I've played and the continuing tree removal is opening up corridors and angles of play by the day.

Why isn't this course more highly regarded?

[Tom Huckaby]

Because it's a muni in a sea of great private courses.

 

And Kyle, believe it or not I have played that course - the aforementioned Mr. Cirba took me there on an early morning a few years ago.  Played the first few holes in some serious fog, but that didn't dampen the enjoyment... I recall the back nine being a real kick.

TH

[Kyle Harris]

Tom,

Mike and I spoke about your trip walking up the first, and the fog as well.

The back nine is a kick - with no weak hole. The left side of 13 has been opened up more (back to the specimen trees between it and 10) so you can see the green from the tee. 17 and 18 are as demanding a finish as I've ever played, as well.

The greens were speedy (8-9ish, I'd guess) if bumpy. 11 played dead into the wind and the approach shot was loads of fun. I commented that I could sit in that fairway and run shots up over that shoulder all day.

Muni-shmuni... the only thing in that area is some other Ross course called Gulph Mills... and look at some of those members.  

[Craig_Rokke]

Kyle-

Through you, I enjoy vicarious reminiscing of bachelor days filled with lots and lots of golf!  The Jeff used to be the poster child for run down muni around here. I must have played it a dozen times during the late 80's and early 90's. I got back there just after reconstruction, and now realize that I need to get back there again soon.

[Kyle Harris]

Craig,

I played it in a HS Match (tri-match with Norristown and Methacton) in 1999, and you're right. It was in awful shape.

Played it again in 2002.

Night and day. Night and day.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

This reminds me that it's time for a return visit when the weather breaks...no cold and wind for me at my advanced age.

[Dan Herrmann]

Wasn't the Jeff the course who's Ross pedigree wasn't discovered until recently?

[TEPaul]

Kyle:

The course probably isn't better regarded because it hasn't been long since it was restored. I've been there (one night) but I've never played it.

The course was once well known around here because of its unusual bunkering---which ironically were the multi-set variety as was Aronimink which came after Jeffersonville. One of the reasons Aronimink chose to use Ross's own bunker drawings for Aronimink's recent restoration was Ron Prichard believed that McGovern had changed the Aronimink bunkering to those multi-sets because that's what Jeffersonville had and there's no question that McGovern built Jeffersonville. Many wonder if Ross had anything at all to do with Jeffersonville or ever saw it.

Jeffersonville was also a favorite as a young man of none other than Tom Fazio, who kindly complimented Ron Prichard on his restoration of Jeffersonville. I do not know if Jeffersonville was restored with those multi-set bunkers but if not we will probably hear that its restoration was also a tragic mistake from that numb-scull in his Ivory Tower somewhere in Ohi0, Tom MacWood.

By the way, McGovern's daughter lives in Norristown and apparently confirmed that her Dad built Jeffersonville, even though Ross was no stranger to her at all. She said he was like a favorite uncle to her when she was a kid.

[Kyle Harris]

Tom,

The bunkering at Jeffersonville has the multiple sets. Especially on the first few holes.

McGovern's routing is superb, and I know he catches some flak on here but there really is no redundancy and the course presents all sorts of different angles on the wind and positioning therein. Only at one point do two consecutive holes go in the same direction.

I highly recommend you take a look at your convenience.

[TEPaul]

"Wasn't the Jeff the course who's Ross pedigree wasn't discovered until recently?"

Dan:

That's true and its one of the better research stories I've ever heard. The Township owns Jeffersonville and a particular supervisor of the township made it somewhat of a mission of his to prove the course was Ross. It took him a number of years to prove it. The township wanted to advertize it that way again but just couldn't prove it was Ross. Apparently they looked everywhere and then called the Tufts in Pinehurst who had nothing at all on it. Kris Januziek told the supervisor that her advice was to continue looking locally and sure enough some receipts from the Ross organization turned up in some ladies attic (it was probably McGovern's daughter in Norristown). However, as mentioned before most feel Ross himself never really had anything to do with it and that it was designed and constructed by his Philly foreman and Wynnewood office manager, J.B. McGovern.

[TEPaul]

"Tom,
The bunkering at Jeffersonville has the multiple sets."

Kyle:

Well, isn't that intersting. Now maybe that numb scull from Ohio will quit saying that Ron Prichard has done nothing but generic Ross single grassed down bunkers on all his restorations.

[Kyle Harris]

"Tom,
The bunkering at Jeffersonville has the multiple sets."

Kyle:

Well, isn't that intersting. Now maybe that numb scull from Ohio will quit saying that Ron Prichard has done nothing but generic Ross single grassed down bunkers on all his restorations.

Google Maps has the aerial post-restoration work. Take a look.

[TEPaul]

"Google Maps has the aerial post-restoration work. Take a look."

Kyle:

No need to tell me that, I'll just go over there and look at them in person. You should address that remark about Google and the aerial to that numb scull in his Ivory Tower in Ohio.

[Kyle Harris]

"Google Maps has the aerial post-restoration work. Take a look."

Kyle:

No need to tell me that, I'll just go over there and look at them in person. You should address that remark about Google and the aerial to that numb scull in his Ivory Tower in Ohio.

I did see a dog running around out there yesterday... so with your typically schtick, you may get a dachsund out of the deal, as well.

[Mike_Cirba]

I only have a second, but would just add a few things;

1) We had a great time.  We walked and played 25 holes in about 4 hours in chilly, windy conditions (about 43 degrees Fahrenheit with 15-20 mph winds).

2) The course, while exhibiting less than plush public course conditions, is wonderful from an architectural standpoint with so many neat features to look at and wonderful green complexes to explore.  

3) Ron Prichard did a fabulous job at restoring this course and the bunkering is really well done.  The more recent tree clearing is phenomenal.

4) If Donald Ross didn't see this course, then JB McGovern is a much better architect/router and green designer than anyone has ever given him credit for, at least on this board.

5) If this were a finely maintained private course in a better setting, it would hardly be unheard of...

Shhhhhh....for $19 yesterday I felt like I was stealing.
 

[TEPaul]

Mike Cirba said:

"3) Ron Prichard did a fabulous job at restoring this course and the bunkering is really well done. "

Do you see that you numb scull? What do you think about that? If you say that's what they should have done at Aronimink again, I'm going to die laughing, as that's one of the reasons for the decision to go to Ross's drawings at Aronimink. Aronimink definitely wanted Ross's own bunkers at Aronimink, not J.B.McGovern bunkers from a public course in the next township.  

By the way, Kyle and Mike, I admire you very much for going out and playing that much golf yesterday. For some odd reason I got it into my head that it would be a good idea to go over to GMGC and play a little golf. I think it may've been the first time in about half a year. It was OK for a while but then I froze my ass off and I was only about five miles from where you guys were.

[TEPaul]

"4) If Donald Ross didn't see this course, then JB McGovern is a much better architect/router and green designer than anyone has ever given him credit for, at least on this board."

Mike:

I'm glad to hear you say that about McGovern. As you can see, the architecture that McGovern gets solo billing for is very slim indeed. Jeffersonville doesn't show up at all under either Ross or McGovern, so the only course it appears he ever did on his own other than Jeffersonville (which wasn't realized until the last 5-7 years) was Overbrook. I don't know if you've ever played Overbrook but if you rave about that one you're going to the back of the class and face the wall, Pal.

Maybe Overbrook should be looked at again, although now it's had quite a bit of redesign. John Goesslin's brother is the really good super over there and there's no question at all Overbrook year in and year out turns out about the most competitive players in Phlly.

They used to say it's easier to win the Philadelphia Amateur Championship than it is to win the Overbrook Club Championship.  

[michael_j_fay]

Guys:

How old is the course?

R. Prichard told me that a lot of the bunker and green construction evidenced that the course was a Ross. If it was in the 20's I would doubt that McGovern did it on his own. If in the 30's there is a possibility.

Let meknow.

Thanks.

MJF

[Kyle Harris]

Michael J. Fay,

1931

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul,

I'm not going anywhere NEAR the Aronimink bunker discussion!  

However, the thing I love about the bunkering at Jeffersonville is the number of different shapes, sizes, depths, placements, and other configurations of the bunkers....nothing rote or routine at all.  

The greens are prototypical Ross with rounded edges, false fronts, areas that sweep away, and some neat internal contour.  Cool stuff needing careful study and execution.

Not sure if this link will work but let me try anyway;

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Norristown,+PA&t=k&ll=40.134003,-75.389128&spn=0.003757,0.010504

[D_Malley]

anyone have any idea how many acres that course is on?
It looks like less than 100

[D_Malley]

i remember playing there after the renovation and finding many very good holes. but at times i felt like i needed a hard hat.

[Mike_Cirba]

Tom Paul,

If we had known you needed a golf fix yesterday we would have loved to have you along at Jeff.  

The key is "layers".  That and a nice ski cap pulled down over the years.  Oh...and walking briskly.  

That's it...it's now my mission to take you slumming this year and before too long you'll be singing the praises of JB McGovern and Ed Ault.  

By the way...speaking of the "hood", I guess Norristown would definitely qualify.  Who knows, we might even run into Huge "Puffy" Wilson!  

[D_Malley]

whomever did the routing (which may of been the only thing ross did) made excellent use of what he had to work with.

[TEPaul]

I'd say Jeffersonville would have to be older than 1931 and maybe older than Aronimink. McGovern's daughter would certainly know. Her number is around here somewhere.

One reason I say that is there's an ad in that July 1931 Delaware County Times Special Edition for the Penna Amateur Championship at Aronimink that says;

"Jeffersonville Golf Club was designed by Donald J. Ross Associates, nationally known planners and builders of championship golf courses. This course is noted for its velvety, creeping bent fairways, interestingly trapped, and its rolling, beautifully wooded fairways".

Since that ad is in the summer of 1931 it sounds to me like the golf course had been around a while.

Michael:

The word around here has always been although the course was built under the Ross name, and receipts were found paying the Ross Co, that McGovern did this one himself, and his daughter who seemed to be very close to Ross confirmed that. That would probably explain why it doesn't show up on Ross's list of courses.

MikeC:

You think you got a deal on green fees? The fee in that ad was $1 on the weekdays, $2 on the weekends and 50c for women on Tuesdays.