[George_Bahto]

What a great picture of the bunker Garden City hole 1

footprints - not the least bit level - so picturesque .... a true hazard

[JESII]

"Was golf more fun then?"


Certainly more random, and for many of us on here that has alot to do with the fun of the game.

I wonder when and why it started to shift towards the fairness ideal of today, any thoughts?

[George Pazin]

While you can never really go wrong with blaming Barney, I'm inclined to think the 2 biggest factors in the shift toward fairness were:

1) the proliferation of the pro game, especially due to TV;

and

2) a general shift in our culture to "fairness" (you can also never go wrong blaming those hippies from the 60s ).

-----

Thanks for posting the photo, George I. I suspect the number of golfers who'd prefer it are a small though vocal minority, many of whom post on here!

[Sean Leary]

Is that Mr. Mucci in the picture?  Why don't we ask him.

[George_Bahto]

Sean - Mucci made the green laughing at this bird in the hazard

[Sean Leary]

Must be TE Paul then. I wondered if Pat kicked Tom's ball here into the hazard as Tom was lying on the ground forming his initial thoughts on his IMM.....

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Sully,
The change was happening even back then. (circa 1920-1930's) Many architects wrote of of the fear that golf was going to lose it's  meaning--about loss of spirit, fun and challlenge vs. Man's inborn need to make things easier.

From my research, I have found that with Golf's fervent growth during that time period, if you were good at golf, you were well-respected and trusted, thus the need to simplify to attain that same level of respect. Knowledge, being the palace of wisdom took a back seat to the ability at leaving one's mark, thus the death of common sense.

I've said this many times in conversations with Tom Paul and Uncle George, I think these guys knew we lost the war.... (meaning MacKenzie, MacDonald, Thomas, Tillinghast and Ross, as well as countless others who knew the soul of the sport) I do think it ultimately disheartened them as much as ill-health and poor finances did.

Count me as one that has had a lifetime of memories and have found great friends because of this SPORT. I even have found that I count myself as a sporting man because of all of it. But I look at everything back then and I just see just how pure it all was and how even back then it was being saturated by the very growth that has led us to where we're at today. I think of how  everything has to be sold and packaged to me, despite the wonders of technology, as well as the magnificent abilities to manufacture this equipment. From a commercial aspect the Sport is as in much peril the same way Eisenhower warned of the military complex of these United States would surely one day ruin it's very existence. Maybe he figured that all out while at Augusta, playing golf or simply while fishing from the sancturary of the pond?

[JESII]

Tommy,

Thanks for that response.

When you say "thus the need to simplify to attain the same level of respect", who or what are you referring to?

[Jim_Kennedy]

George,
What a hazardous bunker to be in.  

A good friend of mine, sportswriter and novelist Eliot Asinoff,
is fond of saying that money ruined baseball and I think the same thing happened to golf and it started way back when.
Everytime a reason is given for golf's sorry state today, it connects back to the almighty dollar.  

[RJ_Daley]

Tommy, look at Uncle Georgie's tag line. "Hockey, they sure messed up a great sport".  Isn't golf the same thing?

When golf was played by a very small, sporting, rugged individualist (most from an elite or weathy class - not all) it was a sport of with more demand because of equipment, more rugged fields of play, and less wide spread clamor for 'fairness'.  Them was the breaks when you landed in a bunker.  I'm sure the lament, "what a pity" was heard more often.

But, as more people found the sport to be a game, and a place to play as a social club, the demand for fairness for the masses (the oposite of the original individualistic players) became the goal of every club.  Building large ornate clubs with grand clubhouses and big doings began to require the marketing to the masses, and fairness and appeal of the lovely golf as a landscaped grounds became the ideal.  Make the game easier, more fair was inevitable.

Back to hockey... we now have community youth leagues and clubs, where children play in highly organized and "fair" conditions, where every kid has a turn, mommie and daddie drop them off and pick them up, and it is all laid out for them in a highly organized environment.  Equipment makes it safer and easier to skate and perform.  The game becomes more gentrified just like golf.  Sure, the highest level of hockey competition is pretty rough and tumble, and athletically, very challenging.  But, is it more fun than seeing Eddie Giacomin defending a shot from a streaking Gordie Howe, both helmetless, maybe Eddie had on a Halloween mask...

[Tom Huckaby]

Hmmmmm... just taking George's photo for what it is, and not going beyond that bunker, well....

I'm not sure I'd call that more fun.

I am all for deep, penal bunkers, or those that might require one to go out sideways or backwards.

I'm not sure I'm in favor of hazards that require more than a stroke to get out, or require serious contemplation of unplayable lie relief.

Might this be a case of too much of a good thing?

TH

[JESII]

Oh, come on you big wimp. Just don't hit it in there if it's so bad.

[George_Bahto]

Hey Huck look at all the fun at Sand Hills        -   like he said

"don't hit it in there"

I'm including this photo in my presentations from now on

fairness and PC - that's really helped us a lot (NOT)

[rgkeller]

When the heroes of the game became those in pursuit of money, then "fairness" became important to the game because fairness was important to those making a living from the game.

[Tom Huckaby]

Gents, there are very few bunkers at Sand Hills that are like this.  Even the oft-pictured monster to the left of four has level sand and CAN be gotten out of in one stroke.  The ones that are unkempt like this are way out of play - so the fate is deserved.

But should a green-side bunker really be this way?

I absolutely understand "don't hit it in there" - like I say, I have nothing against hazards where the only play is sideways or backwards.

I just don't get making bunkers like this - if they are so meant to be "don't hit it in there", why not just fill them with water?

To me this is a very key distinction - waters are death, bunkers are meant to leave a little life.  

And that bunker looks to be worse than death... hell water might be BETTER...

So seriously, maybe a FEW bunkers like this are ok - but every single one?

Sorry guys, can't see that as fun - it's WAY too penal.

TH

[Rick Shefchik]

Was Golf More Fun Then?

Not for that guy, if he was a lefty.

[Steve Lang]

 

NEVER FUN UNLESS PLAYED AS A GAME..

SOMETIMES FUN WHEN PLAYED AS A COMPETITIVE SPORT..

CERTAINLY NOT FUN WHEN PLAYED AS A PROFESSION..

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tommy,

Thanks for that response.

When you say "thus the need to simplify to attain the same level of respect", who or what are you referring to?

Sully,
My reference is merely my opinion that many have changed things--the courses, the equipment, etc. to take advantage of their lack of ability. In other words, if the bunker is deep and menacing and one of the more influential member's golf ball always seems to find that hazard the chances are likely that particular hazard will change.

Sitwell Park would be a good example. Chances are if those putting surfaces would have made it, we might be all scratching our eyes out and selling our first born to play there.

Dick,
What's Hockey?

[RJ_Daley]

It is a game the Kings were not playing last night against the Coyotes in that building you helped wire up.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Exactly! What a disaster eh?

[Dave Bourgeois]

On this site we talk about firm conditions, less than perfectly maintained bunkers (like the one in the picture), walking with your bag, inexpensive fees, and a host of other things having to do with the sport of golf in general.  

In some strange way it makes me think that the mangy munis that I play are golf in its purist form.  I might just be crazy or the thought just makes me feel better when I drive past Quaker Ridge to get to Split Rock.

[Doug Siebert]

Dave,

I do get a perverse pleasure playing this cow pasture course just outside of town in the summer if it is really dry out, which I'll use do once or twice a season to give myself a chance to work on my driving and wedges.  The greens are tiny little pushups, maybe 40 feet across for the largest, and even though half the par 4s are driveable for me its a really challenge for the short game because I'll end up 40-50 yards short, left or right of a bunch of greens, but hitting a good wedge off a cuppy lie on hardpan to such a small target is a real test of nerves.  Occasionally I do play it as a bump and run if it really sets up for that, but like I said wedge practice is one of my primary reasons for being there -- if I can handle those shots I am usually knocking it stiff for the next few weeks with my LW on real courses.  Of course if I mishit the shot or just misjudge the carry distance I will usually have the same exact shot over again, just from 40-50 yards away on the other side

Maybe what I'm missing from it really being like a golden age experience (sans golden age quality architecture, of course) is a set of hickories and the rattiest most beat up range balls I can find.  Breaking 80 that way would probably be one heck of a big challenge.  I know I'd have a lot more fun there with hickories than I would on my home course regardless of what tees I played it from.  Somehow perfectly manicured A1 bent grass fairways and hickories just don't seem like they belong together.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Exactly! What a disaster eh?

Tommy,

The Kings will get well tomorrow night at this time.....they play my Stars, who they have owned this year.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Jeff,
I expect it to be a tie! For recuperation, I watched Slap Shot earlier tonight while I 've been working. One of the best movies of all time.

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