Southern California Sampler

[Jason Topp]

I played an interesting mix of Los Angeles and Palm Springs courses the last few days.

Los Angeles

Rustic Canyon - I thought it was a lot like Wildhorse with a figure 8 routing and tilted up a canyon.  Terrific golf, terrific laid back atmosphere to the place and a great staff at the course.  

The only hole that seemed goofy to me was the 7th, 340, uphill, wash angling right to left around 22 degrees and the green heavily defended on the left.  I half shanked a 4 iron next to the wash off the tee and wound up in a much better position than those that hit a good tee shot, even though I had about 200 yards left to the green.  It seemed to me that this hole would play better if it was shorter and carrying the wash was a real option (perhaps it is for long hitters).  Did this hole get altered by the mudslide?

Angeles National - Some interesting holes and concepts, but very narrow with slopes feeding shots into the desert.  I actually would prefer to see some containment if a course is going to be this narrow.  I have to think play will always be slow here. A four handicapper in our group lost 9 balls while having a bad day.  A twelve lost a dozen.  

Palm Springs

Bighorn Mountain - seemed a lot like other Arthur Hills desert courses.  In terrific shape with a lot of holes I have seen before.


StoneEagle - One of the most unique courses I have ever played.  Very steep site.  Because the fairways blend together, your view from the tee is often of a lot of grass with bunkers, rock areas and canyons sprinkled all over the place.

A lot of room off the tee, but very interesting driving because of the desire to be aggressive with length and line.

The greens represent the true test of the ideal espoused by many on this site of sacrificing speed for interesting contours.  It will be interesting to see how it is received over time because when playing it once, you can hit a pretty good iron shot and be left with an impossible two putt.  By the same token, it is really fun to use the slopes on the green to feed shots to the pin.  In addition, when putting the longer grass on the green creates some grain that definitely has an impact.  When combined with the slopes on the greens as well as the steep nature of the property, it is a real challenge to get it in the hole.

Many of the people we talked with in the area do not know what to make of the course.  My guess is that people will enjoy it more and more with repeat play.  It is so unlike your typical desert course that it definitely is an acquired taste.  
 
The course was in terrific condition.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Jason I think you are right on about Stone Eagle.  Golfers in the desert will be confused why they can't shoot good scores there.  Although Michael Walton, a good local player, has shot 65 there.  But the reason for confusion will be the local golfers cannot tell a good course from an ordinary one.  Palm Springs has little to do with good architecture.  It is all about lakes, flowers, palm trees, fancy carts and mounds.  Very little is natural.

[Jason Topp]

Lynn - It will be interesting.  In our group, everyone had some surprisingly bad results, but overall we played pretty well.  Everyone seemed to like it more and more as the round went on.

[rjsimper]

Jason-

Definitely agree with you re: Angeles National - I don't know why the fairways were situated as they were, whether that was by design or to avoid the reality that the course is built in a flood basin, but whatever the reason, the result is a course that one must reasonably pack 6-12 golf balls to have a chance of finishing the round...not my idea of a fun day.

I will likely not go back, but I can see why Joe Weekend-golfer enjoys it (nice conditions, dramatic, big quick greens).

[Bill_McBride]

Jason, the way you describe your wished for #7 at Rustic Canyon is exactly the way it was when it opened.  Shorter, possible to carry the little barranca to the upper fairway off to the right, and an open pitch from there.  Lay up short left and a very difficult pitch from a bad angle.  I haven't seen it since the washout, in fact Kings Putter III it played as a temporary par 3.  A real tragedy losing that multi-option par 4, Rustic had three great short 4s and now I guess 2.

[Joe Perches]

Rustic Canyon - The only hole that seemed goofy to me was the 7th, 340, uphill, wash angling right to left around 22 degrees and the green heavily defended on the left.  []... It seemed to me that this hole would play better if it was shorter and carrying the wash was a real option (perhaps it is for long hitters).  Did this hole get altered by the mudslide?

Yes.  One of my favorite holes at Rustic is no more.

7 today a significantly different hole than the original.  Very penal with little to no advantage to playing extremely long left.  The right fairway option is gone, and the green is unreachable for those with swing speeds less than 130,  Oh well, at least the SCGA course rating went up.

Here's a link to the original description
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/rusticcanyon1.html

Angeles National - Some interesting holes and concepts, but very narrow with slopes feeding shots into the desert.

I think the Angeles fairway slopes are generally flat or are very shallow bowls.  I don't see crowned fairways there.  It's definitely true that hitting the fairways there is very important, but I think if you miss one, it's your own fault.  To me the biggest negative is the consistent requirement of forced 200+yd carries with generally narrow entries to fairways that open significantly wider 10 to 15yds passed the minimum carry distance.  The ESAs are very strict, no entry/no retrieval, and somewhat unfortunate in that the washbasin channel itself is open space and can be tromped on all you want.

I do like the sunken green par 5 with the 80 yard waste bunker right guarding the direct green approach, though I might have left the back long flat so that going for the green in 2 had a bigger penalty with a long miss.  Today, if you are online but long, you generally end up on the green.

What in your opinion are the interesting holes and concepts at Angeles?

[Jason Topp]

Joe - thanks for the background on #7.  I figured something must have happened there.  It does seem to me that as a 300 yard par four, right would still be an option and would improve the hole greatly.

What in your opinion are the interesting holes and concepts at Angeles?

Joe:

I liked the sunken greens on a couple of the early holes.  

I agree that the par five you describe is the best hole on the course.

I was intrigued by the eighth, which was around  400 yards to a very wide fairway to an almost cape green.  I would need to play it more to understand whether there are really any options off the tee, but it is tempting to try and take on the lake and try and get it near the green.

I also liked the par five with water on the left (I'm guessing 16 or 17), although with the way they play the environmental areas, the best strategic play is to dump your drive into the bushes on the right, which is silly.

I also liked the long par four on the back that doglegs a bit to the right with a pretty long carry over a canyon to the green (perhaps 14?).