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Doug Braunsdorf

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Re:6000 Yards of Pure Charm: Glen Ridge Country Club
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2006, 11:25:10 PM »
Thought I would add some of my observations to the preceedings:

The views of New York City from the clubhouse and 1st tee area are extremely inspiring, and make for a great start to a great day.  

I'd like to elaborate on my "chess match" description.  One thing that has not been discussed in-depth prior on this thread is the continual struggle to achieve the proper angle for the next shot.  I feel I can safely say that I have not seen many courses like this, with such an emphasis on proper angle and location on the green.  

First, angles of approach:
On most of the holes here, there is a preferred angle of approach into the green.  While we don't have many pictures to share with you, I count at MINIMUM 14 or 15 of the approaches with a preferred angle to the green.  I haven't seen enough Park courses to adequately make a determination as to what his style was to locating bunkers and dictating preferred lines of play, (for example, my experience with Ross courses is challenging bunkers, Flynn playing away from bunkers for preferred angles in.  I have limited experience with both and may be wrong.)  
 I seem to recall he tacked between both routes here: taking on bunkers to have a good angle in (for example, the right fairway bunker on #1, second shot on #18, for two) and playing away from bunkers in order to have the best angle in.  This second point I seem to recall being evident on #7, for example.

  On the topic of landing the ball in preferred locations, one shining example lies in hole #2.  About 135 yards or so, there are four distinct quadrants to the green in which holes can be located, and a shot should be played to in order to have a desirable result.  My discussion with Dean on his experience playing this hole was that oftentimes, it was best to play away from the hole location, where a reasonable two-putt could be had.  
  I can understand this particular phenomenon confounding golfers--I understand the ego thing at work, when we have wedge or 9-iron in hand, temptation is to go right at the flag.  On #2, misstruck shots would not only not land in the proper location, but be funneled away by the green contours to spots elsewhere on the green--maybe front of the green, maybe one side.  This is not exclusive to this hole--many other holes here require te shot to be played to a preferred location.  #18 green is particularly striking in its demands on the golfer to hit a controlled mid to long iron, from an uphill lie, to a severely contoured green.  Again, misstruck shots will be funneled away to points other than the intended location.  

I'm not so sure Matt's blanket statement regarding "short pitch shots to greens" is entirely accurate--yes, one may hit a lot of wedges and short irons in, if the proper location is found with the tee shot, but the question is, is the ball in the right location for a one or two putt?  

The "temptation" phenomenon is not only evident on the approaches, but also on many of the drives as briefly touched on above.  I could see in many instances where hitting driver looks attractive, but isn't the right play.

This, I was thinking about afterwards, is one of the most memorable things about this golf course; namely, the demands placed on the golfer throughout the round, the demand to think and execute, in spite of the modest length.

I do wish Google aerials were updated, so we could provide a recent aerial, so all of you here could see and better understand some of our points made about angles and lines of play.  

Further, I didn't feel particularly "cramped" on the course at all, and I'm 6'3" and 210 lbs.  Yes, there are areas where there are a few holes in close proximity to each other, specifically around the creek/canal at the bottom of the property, but I'd have to see it on a summer Sunday in May or June to properly validate or refute this.  It's a small piece of property, and I think it can be said that Park got the most out of it.  I hope to be back, very soon.  

Special thanks to Dean, Patrick, and Club Staff: PGA Master Professional Bill Adams and Staff PGA Professionals Jeff Maines and Joe DeChiara.  


 
« Last Edit: March 22, 2006, 11:29:21 PM by Douglas R. Braunsdorf »
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Patrick_Mucci

Re:6000 Yards of Pure Charm: Glen Ridge Country Club
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2006, 07:25:41 AM »
Doug,

Whenever someone says that a golf course is too easy I ask them what they shot, or what's their best round.

Frequently, they didn't play to their handicap, unless they're playing a scramble format or playing best ball of many.

While Glen Ridge may have some short holes, it also has some bite to the unwary or wild golfer.

It's a sporty test.

Kyle Harris

Re:6000 Yards of Pure Charm: Glen Ridge Country Club
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2006, 08:03:40 AM »
Doug,

One of the more appealing aspects of the Glen Ridge is the premium on the tee shot so you can hit the short iron/wedge approach. Each hole presents a slightly different tee shot challenge in order to give the most optimum and shortest club into the green.

As Tom Paul notes, the use of the ridge through the middle of the course is appealing in the sense that the tee shots hit it at slightly different angles and distances, allowing for an interesting variety.

Two 330 yard holes in the same direction may play much differently at Glen Ridge because of this feature, and the careless or lax golfer may find a wedge approach on one, and a 7-iron approach from a slightly blind and uphill lie on the other.

All the while, the greens are consistent in the premium on angle of approach.

Doug Braunsdorf

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Re:6000 Yards of Pure Charm: Glen Ridge Country Club
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2006, 08:05:07 AM »
Pat;

  Agreed.  While short, there is a correct place to go on every hole.  

  Kyle and I were talking with Jeff and Joe (Staff PGA Pros.) there for some time after lunch, and Jeff told a story of hosting an event for the NJPGA last year.  
 
  He talked about placing tees forward on #1, to entice players to drive the green, which they attempted to, and couldn't figure out why they made par or bogey on a 310-yard downhill hole.  

  I believe it was Dean who said something similar; if I understood correctly, words to the effect of everyone shooting 64-on the card.  After 18 holes, for some reason, that imagined "64" looks more like 84 or 85--and people don't know where it came from.  
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

wsmorrison

Re:6000 Yards of Pure Charm: Glen Ridge Country Club
« Reply #29 on: March 23, 2006, 08:20:57 AM »
I have never seen Glen Ridge, but between the discussions here, photos and Ron Forse's insistance that I see it...I hope to someday soon.  For now though, in terms of  architectural and topographic interest, playability and challenge the best 6000 yard course I've ever seen (actually 5989 yards) is Merion West.  It is fascinating and fun.  It is the perfect complement to the East Course.  I was walking around the golf course with a fellow GCAer last week and it is a great golf course in any analysis.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2006, 08:21:29 AM by Wayne Morrison »

Kyle Harris

Re:6000 Yards of Pure Charm: Glen Ridge Country Club
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2006, 08:45:44 AM »
Wayne,

I'm not sure if Merion West and Glen Ridge are comparable in anything other than length. Merion West seems to rely more heavily on the severe topography of the site and attacking broad slopes at different angles, whereas Glen Ridge's presentation is a lot more subtle. It takes a very discerning golfer's eye to realize (from the tee) to see how the slopes are integrated with the hole and where the angles of the green are.

I'd speculate that Glen Ridge is more visual deception than Merion West as well.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2006, 08:46:15 AM by Kyle Harris »

Doug Braunsdorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:6000 Yards of Pure Charm: Glen Ridge Country Club
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2006, 08:51:28 AM »
Another aspect of GRCC to note is the orientation of the greens to the surrounding topography.  The club sits on a hill that faces East.  Many of the greens on the holes running West To East are slightly built up in the rear section, and visual deception is achieved here, much in the style of #3 at Rolling Green, where putts front to back on the green are quicker than those back to front--front to back on the green follows the main slope of the hills in the area.  
"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

TEPaul

Re:6000 Yards of Pure Charm: Glen Ridge Country Club
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2006, 09:40:12 AM »
Wayne:

It was the great and highly quirky Bill Kittleman who proclaimed that Merion West has more "architecture" than Merion East. Of course no one has actually asked him to explain what he means by that. Matter of fact he's proclaimed that some little course somewhere has more "architecture" than any other course anywhere. ;)

I saw Hanse & Co's Jim Wagner yesterday and we were laughing about some of Bill's sentiments on golf architecture which are practically impossible to categorize or understand.

For instance, he once told me he thought the bunkers of Merion East looked prissy and unnatural during that time when many of us thought they looked so wonderful (in the 1930s et al) when they had those frilly and lacy edges.

Jim said Bill's idea of a great looking bunker is when a rather large piece of sod from the lip comes loose and slips down the face of the bunker. When you think about that it really can't get much more natural than that.  ;) After-all that truly is the way water works on the earth frequently.

He also said Bill's idea of an ideal drop shot hole is when the golfer has to hit the shot blind and then sprint to the front of the tee to see what happened.  ;)

I don't know whether I ever told you this but last Dec at Gil's Christmas party I was leaning against a desk talking to Jim Wagner, Applebrook's super and the pro and maybe Bill K and rather slowly a fairly odd smell began to emanate in the room followed by a semi-haze. It turned out I was leaning against a couple of little jar candles on the desk and had lite the back of my blazer on fire.

Well, after he finally stopped laughing that occurence prompted Jim Wagner to tell me that one day out on site with Bill kittleman the lovely day suddenly turned bitterly cold and windy and Jim and Bill were not ready for it or dressed for it.

Someone had bought a few MacMuffins or something and there were a few paper bags from them lying around.

So Bill K grabbed one of the paper bags and proceeded to cut out two little holes for his eyes, one for his nose and one for his mouth and put the bag over his head for warmth and to block the hollowing wind.

Only problem was he put his cigar in the mouth hole of the bag and continued to smoke it. Sure enough after a while the cigar lit the bag on fire and Bill K began running around looking like his head was on fire.

These architectural geniuses are something to behold but they do need to be watched carefully sometimes so they won't do something insane like light their heads on fire with paper Egg MacMuffin bags.







;)

Matt_Ward

Re:6000 Yards of Pure Charm: Glen Ridge Country Club
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2006, 10:09:42 AM »
Doug:

If you want to check out a layout that's short but possesses more pounds for the punch given its size check out Morris County Golf Club in Convent Station.

Glen Ridge has its moments -- they are much fewer than the aformentioned gem I just mentioned.