Golfweek Rankings Finally on the Web

[David Wigler]

http://www.golfweek.com/285573027373909.php  About 2/3's the way down the page you can get the individual links.  Nice to see that Kingsley continues to climb (The quote at the bottom of my posts relates to Huckaby's inexcusable affiliation with GD, since they do not give Kingsley its due and two years later he still refuses to sing its praises).  

The new additions continue to add credibility to Golfweek's list.  I was thrilled to see where MPCC ended up.  I certainly believe it to be that good or better.  If I had to pick a greatest surprise, it would be Butler National moving from 87 to 35.  I would have argued that perhaps Butler was overrated at 87.  It is a very hard course and a great test of golf (Things that suit it well for GD's rankings), but I am not in love with the architecture of the course and certainly did not have it in the class of Mayacama, Long Cove and MPCC (Which are all directly below it).  I know many hate lists but I am a list guy and look forward every year to GW's list and every other year to GD's (Except for Huckaby's brainless exclusion of Kingsley  ).

[ed_getka]

David,
   Thanks for posting the link. Nice to see you posting again.

[Craig Van Egmond]

I had no idea that Ken Kavanaugh did the routing for Seven Canyons.

Lots of new modern courses made the list, anybody know who fell off?

[Tom Huckaby]

I shall apologize once again for my personal involvement in the short-shrifting of Kingsley.  I do have such tremendous power.

 

As for this list, nothing seems earth-shattering to me.  Interesting that a course we're all panning - Callippe Preserve - comes off as the #6 public access course in CA though - ahead of some truly great courses.  I wonder what the GW folks saw that we missed?  

[Mike Benham]

As for this list, nothing seems earth-shattering to me.  Interesting that a course we're all panning - Callippe Preserve - comes off as the #6 public access course in CA though - ahead of some truly great courses.  I wonder what the GW folks saw that we missed?  

Tom -

The course only opened in November, so there must be a few Golfweek raters living in the Bay Area

And where is Cooperopolis ?

Mike

[Tom Huckaby]

Mike - I believe we know them all.  They must have been VERY impressed.  But shouldn't you be heading out to this fabulous course right about now?

Cooper, copper, heck, I can live with typos.  

[Tim Pitner]

On the face of things, the courses in the top 100 lists seem to be, more or less, in the ballpark, but, if the state public-access lists follow the example of the list for my home state of Colorado, then these are seriously flawed.

Fossil Trace ahead of Broadmoor East?  Fossil Trace, Haymaker, Breckenridge and River Valley Ranch in the top 10, and no Riverdale Dunes?  In addition to Riverdale Dunes, I would probably rate Heritage at Westmoor over the courses listed above.  While I like Haymaker, Buffalo Run is probably a stronger Keith Foster course.  Lakota Ranch, Pradera, Redlands Mesa, and Fossil Trace all in the top 10?  Did Jim Engh write the list?

I don't how the other state lists hold up, but the Colorado one is comical.  It seems to be strongly biased in favor of new designs.

[SL_Solow]

David; wonderful to hear from you.  Perhaps the move by Butler is attributable to the revisions made there over the last couple of years.  I don't think they changed the course enough to warrant that kind of a move; I'm close to your evaluation.  But the course has been changed since the last rating period.

[Andy Troeger]

Congrats to Mike DeVries on Greywalls coming in as the #2 public in Michigan behind only Arcadia Bluffs. From the pictures I've seen, I can understand why!  Sorry to see Tullymore drop, however, as its one of my personal favorites!

With regards to the Indiana list, of the ones I've played I think Rock Hollow is the best, followed closely by the Fort. Warren would be next, and then Otter Creek. I evidently need to play more of the other courses around Indy.

[SL_Solow]

Shiv;  I presume that put Butler only slightly behind Medinah in your rankings.

[Evan Fleisher]

Speaking of interesting Chicagoland rankings...how about Cog Hill Dubs going bye-bye from the list completely?!?!?

[redanman]

Tim

I suspect that the CO rankings reflect out-of staters visiting only hte newer courses and listening to Matt Ward and his love for all courses mountain.

I shall return this summer to CO for the first time since 2000 and set all this straight for everyone to have an honest unbiased opinion.  

CO is great for the public golfer - a million places to play that are better than all but about 3 private courses in the whole state and most of the public ones are cheap to boot!

The PA, DE, NJ and NY lists are reasonable although one can quibble about one's favorites.  e.g. I happen to feel that in PA Morgan Hill is better than Great Bear and Glen Mills (Both really fine courses, too!), it is a monumental mountain golf course achievement (not for everyone), there are so many really creative good holes and interesting greens on an absolutely ridiculously severe property.  I apologize, I'm sure you guys are as tired of me and Morgan Hill as you are of Matt and almost anything above 4000 ft.

I had the place (MH) to myself today for $40 in 50+ degree weather and sunshine 1-2 club wind.  Even better than remembered.  I really wonder if there are any new mountain course with better greens, holes and features in the new CO courses.  Maybe more spectacular scenery, but gca?  Time for me to return to CO and render some opinions.



Message to Kelly - the fairway contouring and bunkering on #16 is absolutely superb.  I really got to experiment today.  (And ... ... ... the north view from that tee is like standing on top of a tree.)

[PThomas]

wow, Ev, I didn't even notice that

perhaps it's due to an over-familiarity with parkland golf or that particular course, but I certainly don't think Dubs is a great golf course...a Doak 6, max, imho

[Evan Fleisher]

wow, Ev, I didn't even notice that

perhaps it's due to an over-familiarity with parkland golf or that particular course, but I certainly don't think Dubs is a great golf course...a Doak 6, max, imho

...was ranked 47th Modern last year and now gone...seems like a big drop, that's all...

[Matt Kardash]

That pic of Cypress Point you see when you click on the link makes me wanna vomit.

[redanman]

What matt (not Matt)? Too white for you, or is it the shapes?  I have a little problem with the geometricity in that photo, yet bunker appearance is at times way over-rated, IMO, so I guess it's a wash?

[Jerry Kluger]

It does seem that the Donald's ego will be massaged a bit although I must say that I agree that it is really a very good course with some very interesting holes.  I need to get back to Baltusrol this year and try once again to see why both courses are held in such high regard.  

Next year should be very interesting when Ballyneal and Sebonack are open.

[John Kavanaugh]

Next year should be very interesting when Ballyneal and Sebonack are open.

Don't forget Stone Eagle....maybe Doak will finally get his due.  I doubt Sebonack will get enough visits next year to make the list (see Friars Head) but if it does I see the courses landing....Sebonack 5, Ballyneal 17 and Stone Eagle 72...bout time is all I can say.  What fun...

[John Kirk]

Jerry,

I also believe Stone Eagle is good enough to make the modern 100 list.  Colorado Golf Club and Dismal River will also be vying for spots.

[John Kirk]

Perhaps one reason we're having trouble getting pure architecture discussions is the lack of new courses that opened in 2005.  Next year there are a few biggies opening.

I actually have higher hopes for both Bally and Stone, JK.  The competition is starting to get pretty thick, though.  I don't see why we can't knock Muirfield Village down a couple spots to accommodate Sebonack and Ballyneal.  In a phone call yesterday, one of our esteemed members told me how great Sebonack looks.

I think Stone Eagle may do very well in Golf Digest rankings, just a hunch.

As I type, it is snowing this morning in North Plains, OR.  Not a golf day.

[ForkaB]

That aerial of the CPC eye-candy fest at 14 linked to the headline "A Classic #1" would be brilliant irony, if Golfweek had a clue what irony was.

[Jerry Kluger]

As my buddy says: Rich or poor - rich is better.  How else am I going to be able to see all these courses.

[Matt Kardash]

Redanman,
Yep, it's the shape and style of them.

[Brian_Sleeman]

Congrats to Mike DeVries on Greywalls coming in as the #2 public in Michigan behind only Arcadia Bluffs.

It didn't have enough raters drop by to be eligible for the national rankings - hopefully that will change in the near future!

[Craig Van Egmond]

The Modern architects breakdown something like this:

Fazio           17 courses
Pete Dye     12
Nicklaus       8
C&C              7
RTJ Sr.          6   (kinda surprised about that actually)
Weiskopf      5
Engh              4
Rees               4
Morrish         4
Cupp              3
Palmer           2
RTJ Jr.           2
Doak              2
Hanse             2
Smyers           2

Basically 5 guys make up 50% of the courses in the Top 100.

If Geoff gets shared billing on Rustic, shouldn't Warren Henderson get partial billing for Arcadia?

How can a guy like Art Hills who has built over 200 courses not get one course in the top 100 modern?