[Peter_Herreid]

For those who have been wondering, or who have not previously noticed when at Pacific Dunes, this is (I believe, Tom D. can confirm, if necessary) the hidden tee pad below and to the right of the main tee on #4...


My endomorphic-type center of gravity did not allow for a safe scramble up and down to the pad itself in the rainy and slick conditions on Monday, sorry...

One of the reasons I love going down to Bandon this time of year is the density of the gorse bloom--this picture demonstrates why...

[Tom Huckaby]

Peter - THAT'S IT!  We've discussed it before - thanks for the pic.  First time I went there (right after PD opened) it was a fully-maintained viable teepad, and the path down and back up was easy.  Next time (last June) it was getting to be like you see now... Methinks they really don't want people going down there.

Which is understood given the injury/liability issues.  But still, too bad because from down there it is one GREAT tee shot.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

It is without question a much easier tee shot from down there...not that there is anything wrong with that.

Peter, thanks for the great pics...that is a ton of work to do while trying to play all at the same time.

[Tom Huckaby]

JK -did you play from down there?

I wouldn't say it's easier.  Rather than a straight-ahead shot that one just has to keep left (too far left means bunkers, but that's not DEAD), you have a shot that has to carry significantly uphill, pretty much blind, much more lost-ball potential.

This picture flattens it out a lot - it is really uphill (up-cliff?) from that lower tee.

TH

[John Kavanaugh]

Tom,

Of course I didn't play down there..it is just with my fade it is always easier to face a right side hazard from a diagonal...not sure why..it just fits my eye better.  Come to think of it..it makes the landing area wider by at least 50 yds...or does it..

[Peter_Herreid]

JK--

People on this board whom I have played with can disagree if they like, but I take great personal pride and responsibility in being as inconsipicuous and timely as possible when photographing golf courses while playing.

I don't think it is that hard to do, if one is paying attention to what other people in the group are doing--it's often only a matter of being ready to play from the opposite side of the fairway promptly, or (as was the case this weekend) playing from my proper tee while others are playing the back tees, etc..

I often have plenty of time to frame shots without interrupting pace of play (my biggest pet peeve, the pace of play--not the photography!) while others are lining up putts, hitting a provisional, changing clubs, etc.

The best part is I often get to see lots of places "off the beaten path" with the way I play!

[John Kavanaugh]

Peter,

I for one am thankful you did it...the threads you have started in the last few days are the best in months.  I'd like for you to do one on the 18th at Pacific Dunes...I don't get all the hoopla over that hole.

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

Of course I didn't play down there..it is just with my fade it is always easier to face a right side hazard from a diagonal...not sure why..it just fits my eye better.  Come to think of it..it makes the landing area wider by at least 50 yds...or does it..

JK - it surely is easier for a fader to play any dogleg right hole by aiming at the left point and fading it back along the line of the hole - and that can be done from the lower 4 tee - so good point there.  I just do believe that the uphill nature and long carry over the hazard will make this play tougher for far more people.  So yes, for YOU, a relatively long hitter, solid ball striker, fader of the ball, not easily intimidated by carries nor blind shots, it might be an easier tee shot.

It wasn't for me.

And I'd bet if we asked 100 random golfers of varied skills, at least 85 would say it's a tougher from below.

But yes, you were only speaking for yourself, I know.

 

[Tom_Doak]

That is indeed the "tee" in question.  However, as I've said here before, I never liked the idea of a tee down there and I made them take out the path to it.

When you are standing down there you're about 10-12 feet below the level of the fairway and cliff edge, so you can't see any of the fairway, and that little knob on the right out in the distance makes it look like there is more fairway than there really is on the right.  It would be very possible to slice a tee shot over the edge and not know you had done so.  To me, that's not good golf, whether it's tougher or easier or whatever.

[Tom Huckaby]

TD:

Party-pooper.  

Of course you're right, it's not a shot for the masses.  Use of it would slow play without a doubt.

But as for it being good golf, well... jeez it's ludicrous for me to question the guy who designed the damn course, but at least for a small segment, isn't it worthwhile?  Would it be wrong to think of it as a championship tee, to be used ONLY by low 'cappers?  Because these types can handle the shot, and NEED to be tricked.

Not that I'm all that good, but I loved the shot from down there.

TH

[ed_getka]

The tee shot from down there is fine for most unless you have my low trajectory drives that never got high enough the few times I tried that tee shot, but I do agree the angle makes it feel like an easier shot since you are playing more away from the cliff, although I don't know how a good tee shot would end up over near the bunkers across the fairway since I never put one in play from down there.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ed:

Very astute.  To some it might FEEL like an easier tee shot since you certainly can more easily away away from the cliff-edge on the right... But your results illustrate perfectly why it's actually a far tougher shot from down there.  As you saw, way more things can go wrong.  And it's not just for the low-ball hitter.

TH

[Jordan Wall]

The tee shot from down there is fine for most unless you have my low trajectory drives that never got high enough the few times I tried that tee shot, but I do agree the angle makes it feel like an easier shot since you are playing more away from the cliff, although I don't know how a good tee shot would end up over near the bunkers across the fairway since I never put one in play from down there.

Try a 3-wood??

btw does anyone have a picture of another hidden tee??

[ed_getka]

Jordan,
  You obviously haven't heard of just how low trajectory I am talking. I wouldn't have any trouble breaking the glass on the Golf Channel competition with virtually every club.

[Joe Hancock]

I once witnessed Ed play the entire 16th at Crystal Downs without getting the ball more than 3 feet off the ground.

Methodology highly not recommended.

Joe

[Ryan Crago]

great post. i had no idea that tee was there.

when I was at Bandon in December i noticed what appeared to be a (new? hidden? alternate?) tee on 17 @ Bandon Dunes.  i was quite far away when i noticed it, and didn't really think about it (ie/ didn't take a photo!) until just reading this post... anyone have any insight? or am i seeing things again?

sorry if its been discussed already.  

oh and ed, it sounds like we play the same game...never have you seen a guy skip a drive 260 yds off the front of the tee deck.

 

[TEPaul]

I think that's an awesome photo and look from that tee on PD's #4. My only criticism is for some unknown reason Tom Doak built that tee about ten times too big.

[Don Dinkmeyer]

It appears the gorse is so HIGH that a tee shot could not clear - yet the box itself looks chewed up close to the edge.

What am i missing?

[ed_getka]

Don,
   They are letting in go natural. It used to be quite obvious and playable as a tee, although I don't remember ever seeing a tee marker down there.

Ryan,
   There are apparently many "Keiser" tees hidden throughout PD, or at least there were. The most intriguing one I heard of, but haven't looked for is somewhere above #18 green for teeing off onto #1. I can only imagine how scary that shot would be, although certainly scenic as all get out.

[Peter_Herreid]

Although I don't have a picture of it, I believe that "Keiser tee" for #1 is just below the deck/patio to the left of where you come back through the plexiglass opening after finishing #18...Maybe it's just to the right of that pathway, I can't remember..

Anyway, if you turn around while standing on the green tee and look back to the back left of the 18th green, you can see a flattened spot that is partially overgrown, and that is where I have been told that tee is/was...

There also appeared, in the early days (1999/2000), to be a flattened probable old "Keiser" tee off the right side of the fairway of #17 at Bandon Dunes, as Ryan has said.  I believe it made that hole a long par 3 carry all the way over the canyon, but I may not have that quite right.  I bet that one is not maintained any more, either...

We all post on this topic every few months, about the hidden tees, just this time I made a point of actually photographing one...

[Jim Nugent]

I once witnessed Ed play the entire 16th at Crystal Downs without getting the ball more than 3 feet off the ground.

Methodology highly not recommended.

Joe

Did he score well?

[David Kelly]

The most intriguing one I heard of, but haven't looked for is somewhere above #18 green for teeing off onto #1.

Ed,
If you walk out of the sliding doors of the little grill at Pacific Dunes and walk across the deck and up the little hill on the other side of it you'll find the tee box.  

[David Kelly]

I once witnessed Ed play the entire 16th at Crystal Downs without getting the ball more than 3 feet off the ground.

Methodology highly not recommended.

Joe

Did he score well?

I was there with Joe and Ed as well that day and to paraphrase Othello, Ed scored not wisely but too well.

[Patrick_Mucci]

That is indeed the "tee" in question.  However, as I've said here before, I never liked the idea of a tee down there and I made them take out the path to it.

When you are standing down there you're about 10-12 feet below the level of the fairway and cliff edge, so you can't see any of the fairway, and that little knob on the right out in the distance makes it look like there is more fairway than there really is on the right.  It would be very possible to slice a tee shot over the edge and not know you had done so.  To me, that's not good golf, whether it's tougher or easier or whatever.

Tom,  what was your thinking with respect to locating a tee down there in the first place ?

Blindness isn't something that comes to mind when you play Pacific Dunes, so it can't be deemed excessive.

If it was a shorter, or more benign hole, would you have been more open to it ?

[Tom_Doak]

Pat:

There was a knob down there that just needed a bit of flattening off to become a tee, and several others in the party were enthusiastic about the idea ... as I remember Josh Lesnik was the first to mention it, and Mike Keiser liked the idea, so Jim went ahead and built it while I was out of town.  But the maintenance path to it was big and ugly [Jim still calls Tony Russell "Guy Lombardo" because he thought the path looked like Lombard St. in SF], and it distracted from the main tee view, and I didn't like the shot from down there, so I had Jim take the path out with Mike's okay.

I didn't mention that you can't see the fairway bunkers on the left from down there, either; it's a guessing game where to hit.  Peter's picture is deceptive because it's taken from the height of the tees in use, not from down below; there is a significant difference.

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