Caddies in the Auld Grey Toon

[johnk]

Does anyone have specific recommendations for good caddies in St. Andrews?

Some friends are going to Scotland in July, playing the Perry Bus tour type stuff (mostly the Scottish Rota courses).  

They asked me at which courses would I recommend taking a caddie, and I said: the only place you should think about caddies is the first round at the Old Course.

Thanks,
johnk

[JSlonis]

John,

What is the skill level of your friends?  I would think that if they're fairly good players, they could do just fine on their own.  Although, if they're into the whole "experience" thing, they shouldn't listen to me.

During a trip to TOC a couple of years ago, we had a foursome of decent players, and our local host(Owner of the Crail Golf Hotel & Crail Member)suggested we skip taking caddies and save our $$ for the Pubs.  He told us to use our yardage guide and go have fun!  We took his advice and had a blast.  It was no trouble at all plotting our way around the links.

The one thing I did notice was that the caddies at TOC only carry single bags.  I'm used to either carrying my own, or having a caddy carry double.  The groups/foursomes I saw where everyone has there own caddies, just looked too busy to me.  

[Mike Hendren]

Thumbs up:  Dennis

Thumbs down: Kenny, aka Cartgate because he once fell in that bunker.

[johnk]

Jamie,

I basically agree with you about the downsides of caddies, cost, group size, etc.  I've never had one in Scotland.

However, the first few times I played TOC, I was lucky enough to play with locals.

Overall, the group has some very good golfers.  I think it's worth it to them to try caddies, and I think TOC is the best place for that.  I just want to make sure they do everything they can to get some good ones.

And I do have to say - from my experiences in the US, a good caddie is definitely worth what he's paid!

[JSlonis]

John,

I should have prefaced my remarks by saying that I caddied for years as a kid, and prefer to walk and take caddies as opposed to riding whenever possible.  In Scotland, I kind of wanted to experience the courses on my own, so therefore our group chose to walk and hoof our own bags the majority of the time.

Our group did take one caddy for our first round at Royal Dornoch.  Our caddy, Alex, carried double and the other two players in our group took trolleys.  Alex was an excellent caddy, which made for a great round.

[Bill_McBride]

We let a couple of drunk caddies in the Dunvegan -- drunk but charming -- talk us into taking them at 6:30 a.m. the next morning.  I was kind of surprised to see them make it and I think there was a bit of a fuss with the caddymaster.  I think there is a very strict rotation and maybe this got violated a bit.

I agree I could have done as well with the strokesaver, and I know I wouldn't have misclubbed myself on the Road Hole and hit my second into the Scholars Bunker...........  Mine was a bit of a cocky lad.

[Mike Hendren]

Bill,

Brings back good memories.  I wasn't about to sleep in my first morning at the Dunvegan, wanting to get down early to get my name down with the starter as a single.  Still dark, the caddies had already convened in the small room just inside the door.  They'd depleted the coffee so I went to the kitchen to fetch the next pot and poured them each a cup as well.  The next thirty minutes in that cramped, smoke-filled room was the highlight of my trip.  

Among the topics of conversation was a recent murder by baseball bat and a quizzical discussion as to where one buys a baseball bat in St. Andrews.  

Mike

[ed_getka]

John,
  Its prudent to check for your friends. My experiences with caddies has been mostly it was a waste of money. I would agree however that a good one is worth it, so its wise to inquire. I didn't take any caddies in Scotland so I can't help here.

[Chris Moore]

I found caddies much more helpful in the UK than here.  Frankly, there were some holes at Prestwick, TOC and Western Gailes where I might have been able to find the next tee on my own, but would have had no idea where the next green was.  

[David Sneddon]

Does anyone have specific recommendations for good caddies in St. Andrews?
Some friends are going to Scotland in July, playing the Perry Bus tour type stuff (mostly the Scottish Rota courses).  
They asked me at which courses would I recommend taking a caddie, and I said: the only place you should think about caddies is the first round at the Old Course.

The Old Course, played for the first time with a good caddie is well worth the investment, IMHO.

I only know most of them by their course nicknames but highly recommend the following, in order of preference:

1. Big Alec (Alex Howie)
2. Skeleton John
3. Jeremy from Seattle
4. Wee Stevie
5. Shaggie

No, I've NO idea how #5 came by that nickname, other than his appearance    

[Tom Huckaby]

I only know most of them by their course nicknames but highly recommend the following, in order of preference:

Jeremy from Seattle

WHOA!

I've had three GREAT caddie experiences at TOC, one not so great... that one being Jeremy from Seattle.  Oh he was a very nice kid - and it was fun how the other caddies ripped him - but in terms of advice, well... he was rather insistent on playing an American game with lots of lobs, and his green-reading was very suspect.  Fighting with one's caddie or getting lack of approval (ie shaking one's head, saying "Ok, if that's what you want to do") too many times does not a fun caddie experience make.

Not that I was too card and pencil playing TOC, but we did have matches/bets going, and well... I shot 86 with Jeremy, 74 without him the next day.

Also, well... if I'm playing TOC, I don't want to be discussing the Seahawks and Mariners.  Not that he did, but we felt like we ought to.  

My other three experiences were with grizzled ole Scots, from whom I could barely understand a word.  THAT was what I went to St. Andrews for.

And I'd highly recommend doing that, just once.  Good lord does that add to the experience.

At other courses, taking a caddie is gonna depend on how much you want to spend, what you want out of the rounds.  They damn near always do add to the experience - but they're also not cheap.

So in the end I think John K. has it right on - if you're only gonna do one, make it TOC.

Just ask for a Scot.  And if you do get Jeremy from Seattle, be more forceful than I was.

 

[Yannick Pilon]

Caddies are definately needed at the Old Course if you want the full experience.  It's quite a feeling to be walking around the course with that mini crowd following you.

Yes the yardage books are probably good enough to guide you arond the course, but they don't tell you about all the subtleties of the course.

To save a few bucks, you can also take a junior caddie.  Thney cost 25 pounds as opposed to 35, are most golfers won't be able to see the difference a senior caddie would make.  (It was my first time playing with a caddies, and it was fun...)

Prestwick is another place where a caddie is a big help.  I knew the place from studying the books and didn't used one, but it would have helped a lot to have a bit more info about some of those greens.

Yo can also add Cruden Bay to the list, with all those blind greens!

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I do not think anyone needs caddies anywhere if they will merely buy a strokesaver. However there are 1 or 2 really good caddies at most of the courses like Troon, TOC, Muirfield, Turnberry etc. I have had very good and really bad, but enjoyed a St Andrews University Golf Team member one time. We ended up hanging with them for a few nights. I was in charge of drinks and other necesities and they were in charge of bringing up the quality of friends of a feminine kind as well as other purchases to go along with our drinks.

[Michael Hayes]

The first time I played TOC I had a caddy named Richard that had all the famous one liners that great caddies seem to know... The next few rounds I went solo with no problems.

I met Tip Anderson at the Dunvegan the afternoon after my first old course adventure...many Famous Grouse later he said he would see me around...7:30 the next morning he was at the 1st tee and pulled my clubs with a trolley (hisw hands were soooo bad).  Needless to say it was the Highlight of my entire golf trip, having Arnie's caddie help me around TOC...I got a christmas card from Tip right up until this last year,  I will miss him...

MH

[Bob_Huntley]

I feel as though I have been poleaxed.

The Huck probably does not remember that I recommended Jeremy to him. I used him in the Jubilee Vase and the Medal and thought him to be the equal, or even better than a host of caddies over the years, including good ones, guys mentioned in the book "A wee nip at the 18th hole,"  fag smoking derelicts, drunks and assorted characters speaking just like Robin Williams in his skit on Scottish Golf.

Trust me, Jeremy is good. But remember it is up to you to dictate want you want or need of him, as it is of any caddie.

Another very good man is Isaac "Ike" Sproule, an ex RAF man.
His number is 011-44-1334-655-945. He is an awfully good piper should you need a tune during drinking hours.

Bob

[Tom Huckaby]

Bob:

I would never poleax you.

I checked my Scotland notes - I have files for most golf things - and Ike Sproule was who you recommended for me.  I called and couldn't get ahold of him... so just took what I was given.

It was Jeremy.

And he must have proven that caddies have good and bad days, as do golfers.  Oh as I say, he was VERY nice.  And yes, I failed in recollection of the very wise counsel of it very much being up to the golfer to dictate how much or little is needed.  I was of a mindset that day to let the caddie do WAY more than I usually want... it being TOC and all, and my previous experiences being wonderful in that regard.

Jeremy and I just didn't mesh.  He kept insisting on shots HE likely was great at, but that I told him time and time again I sucked at.  It wasn't fun to have to keep admitting this, and keep having these arguments.

I'd bet if I played with him again, it would work out just fine.  I'd know what to expect.

But what visitor should be expected to know that at TOC?

For a regular player there, hell yes, Jeremy might work out great.  But for a visitor - particulary an American, well... he's got two strikes against him being American to begin with.  You have to remember a visitor WANTS the Robuin Williams impression types - that's what Scotland is supposed to be, in his mind.  He can surely get an American caddie at home.

So with those two strikes against him, well... Jeremy would have to be Baggar Vance himself to make it a net positive for the visitor... and sadly, at least for me, he wasn't.

But of course I am a lowly visitor, and we know Mr. Huntley's credentials.  Weigh the advice here accordingly.

 

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom,

I've pulled myself up from the poleaxing... mea culpa and I grovel in mortification for using your name so loosely.

Bob

[Tom Huckaby]

Bob - no mea culpas necessary - this was worth the read just to be able to use the word poleax so many times!

 

Jeremy was cool - I'd have a beer with him any time.  In the end, that's what matters most.

TH

[Bob_Huntley]

On the subject of caddies, I think Jim Murray of the Los Angeles Times summed it up best.

"One last thing: Never take a caddie unless you happen to know he has a prison record."

Bob

[Marty Bonnar]

As one who, on sadly rarer occasions these days (as my waistline will testify), caddies just ootside the Auld toon, I'd like to add my tuppence-worth.

I think you'd find it hard to find a better bunch of loopers (this side of the pond anyway!) than at Kingsbarns.

In my opinion, they are WAY more professional in their attitude than ANY St A caddie I've met. The St A guys come over to KB when it's really busy (early and late in the Season and at Dunhill Cup time) and swan about acting all superior and somehow 'more authentic' than the KB lads. Tossers mostly!
Frankly, I couldn't believe how many of them were still pi$Łed from the night before. Now, our lads'n'lasses are no angels, but they do turn up looking and acting a sight better than the average Auld St Andrean piŁ$head.

One of them in our group last season, could hardly even SPEAK to his, frankly, dumbfounded golfer. He could hardly wait for the tenth tee and a free Tennents from his man. Arse!

Rant over...
FBD.

[paul westland]

Dave Coyne or a tall gent named "Specs".  My playing partner and I played the old lady anticlockwise and clockwise with these senior caddies and were in capable hands.  

[Bill_McBride]

I think you'd find it hard to find a better bunch of loopers (this side of the pond anyway!) than at Kingsbarns.

In my opinion, they are WAY more professional in their attitude than ANY St A caddie I've met. The St A guys come over to KB when it's really busy (early and late in the Season and at Dunhill Cup time) and swan about acting all superior and somehow 'more authentic' than the KB lads. Tossers mostly!

Frankly, I couldn't believe how many of them were still pi$Łed from the night before. Now, our lads'n'lasses are no angels, but they do turn up looking and acting a sight better than the average Auld St Andrean piŁ$head.

Martin, you really need to loosen up and not be so reserved!    Work on being more passionate!  

Yours,
Uncle Bill

[Brad Tufts]

Thumbs up for a caddie named Ron that I had in '99, a local fisherman who caddies afternoons.  He will undoubtedly be wearing the same blue hat and jacket he was when I last saw him.  He has his own homemade yardage book (as he called my strokesaver a piece of crap, although better than the links trust yardage guides).  He had a great time poking fun at the lowly "bag carriers" and told me of how all the caddies gave the finger to the helicopters that are always surveying TOC for video games and TV specials.  And he was able to club me even though I usually don't let a caddy do that.

When I played the Old the first time, we had 2 caddies reserved for our whole group, and they were nice enough not to ignore the two of us whose bags they werent carrying.  I told Ron I was returning in two weeks with a group of jr. players, and he promised to be waiting on the day I was to play.  2 weeks later, there he was waiting for me on the 1st tee, and I was the only player of 30 to have a real caddy, while the rest of the guys had the college kid loopers!  I was very impressed that the guy remembered me, let alone was there when I told him I was playing again.

Or maybe I just tipped well.....

[David Sneddon]

I only know most of them by their course nicknames but highly recommend the following, in order of preference:

Jeremy from Seattle

WHOA!

I've had three GREAT caddie experiences at TOC, one not so great... that one being Jeremy from Seattle.  Oh he was a very nice kid - and it was fun how the other caddies ripped him - but in terms of advice, well... he was rather insistent on playing an American game with lots of lobs, and his green-reading was very suspect.  Fighting with one's caddie or getting lack of approval (ie shaking one's head, saying "Ok, if that's what you want to do") too many times does not a fun caddie experience make.

I had Alex Howie on the New and a better caddie I doubt you'd find. He couldn't make our early tee time for TOC (had to take his kids to school) so I was set up with Jeremy through my partner's caddie, John.

Jeremy did an excellent job for me, I shot a 75 on the card and we also won our match 6&5.

He never gave me a bad read on the greens, and fully understood the ground game - that was in 2004 so perhaps he learned something from you Tom, and applied it to his future clients  

[Tom Huckaby]

David:

 
The day with me he had an understanding of the ground game like I have an understanding of turning down free beer and pizza.  I could have sworn the guy had stock in Cleveland golf the way he was pushing my L-wedge.

This round occurred in 2002.  I am happy to have contributed to his learning.  I'll also happily expect a percentage of your winnings, thank you very much.