[Jeff_Brauer]

To me anyway.  Just got back from the GIS and the product that caught my eye was a three part flag that helps you gauge wind....

Rather than a solid flag, there are three ribbons weighted differently.  One heavy enough to fly in a 6MPH breeze and up, the second at 12MPH and up, and the third for 12MPH and up.  (another version flies at 10/20/30MPH)  If you see on flag, its 6MPH, two its 12, etc.

What do you think of that?

On a related note, someone told me today that almost 10% of the public has red or green color blindness, so a flag should be white, yellow, and also patterned.

Does anyone have flag color preferences?

[Mike Nuzzo]

Jeff,
Howdy.

The first time I read a release about that flag I puked..
I'm glad I wasn't there - I would have knocked over their booth.

Mabye in your future work you should include in your fee how much it would cost to have you go out and hold the golfers hand when they play, then change their diapers.

I can't wait to talk about my new project...

Jeff - would you start another thread on how the GIS was for you?  I didn't go this year (good thing for the flag vendor) and would like to hear about your experiences - that you can share anyway..  

Cheers

[Garland Bayley]

I often have trouble finding a white flag. Yellow and black does it for me.

[Brad Klein]

Yellow only. Nothing else photographs well or registers on the optic nerve. All other colors get mixed up in the background, and by definition, a checkered flag loses half of its color value and is the dumbest solution yet.

Unless, that is, you include the wind flag, which is the worst thing I have ever heard of.

[Matt MacIver]

Related question: how do people feel about different colored flags for pin positions (up/middle/back) versus pin sheets with exact measurements?  Lots of low handicappers I know like the exactness of the pin sheets, but I like keeping it simple and just TRY to hit the middle of the green.  

[Haven Marceau]

The three piece flag seems to me an attempt to strip yet another skill requirement from the game.  Perhaps we can have these tell tails line the fairway as well, and a provide each player with a conversion chart that will tell them how many yards the wind will move a ball in a given direction.

[Gary_Mahanay]

Jeff,

Doesn't sound like this is going to go over real well with all the purist on this site.  It probably won't be long before somebody comes up with a little weather station that can be added on top of the cart to the GPS system that has an anemometer, thermometer, and relative humidity sensors.  With all that I bet Westridge is still the fastest 18 in this part of the country.

Gary

[wsmorrison]

Matt,

I don't like the use of three color flags indicating pin position.  In fact, nothing beats the Merion baskets.  I also do not like the use of pin sheets except for tournament play.  

In normal daily play, play the course as you find it and use all your skills to help figure it out.  Feel and the mental side of golf get a short shrift these days.  I like efforts that bring this side of the equation more into play.

[Evan Fleisher]

Yellow only. Nothing else photographs well or registers on the optic nerve. All other colors get mixed up in the background, and by definition, a checkered flag loses half of its color value and is the dumbest solution yet.

Unless, that is, you include the wind flag, which is the worst thing I have ever heard of.

But Brad...can you tell us how you REALLY feel?      

[Brian Noser]

I hate the Red White Bue concept of flags. Just because i am one of the ones who is color blind. I can not tell the difference betwen the red and the blue from a distance, and somtimes I have trouble seeing the red depending on what is behind it.

[Kelly Blake Moran]

Matt,

I think these gimmicks including the GPS on the carts serve no purpose particularly with regards for speeding play, however golfers are becoming accustomed to having them and therefore course operators fear not providing these features may upset their clients and cause them to look elsewhere.  This is particularly true for the yardages on sprinkler heads.  There probably is now a generation of golfers that are so accustomed to being fed all this information and know no other form of the game that there will be no going back.  One thing I was taught to do was to check all the flag positions of future holes while playing the present hole.  I would imagine for younger generations that process is unheard of and will never be taught, they just wait until confronted with the approach shot then they check the pin sheet, look for the yardage marker on the sprinkler, verify the distance with the laser, recheck everything with the GPS on the cart, throw turf in the air, recheck with the laser, look for another sprinkler head, then asked someone what they hit.  

[Brad Klein]

Shivas, if you can't tell the difference between a uniform flag that picks up some (undeterminable) strength in a wind and a product sold with the speciifc information about level of flag flutter calibrated with precise mph of wind, then maybe you also need products that tell you if it's raining and how much, what the humidity is, and what the altitude chnage is from your feet to the target area.

[redanman]

Nix the tri-flag.

Yellow wicker baskets?

[Brent Hutto]

Brad,

Whether you like the tri-flag or not (and I personally think it sounds silly) you're making a strawman argument here. A regular flag and the tri-flag are two different ways of doing the same thing. Flapping in the breeze differently is still flapping in the breeze. Slope, elevation, humidity and rainfall are completely distinct from wind.

[Brad Klein]

Brent, we basically agree, though it is a minor point that a normal flag does not come with instructions about the extent of stiffness correlated to the strength of wind. That's a judgment, and it varies from course to course depending upon strength of material.

[David Sneddon]

It's a gimmick - no more no less.

The low handicapper has already mastered the art of guaging the wind, otherwise he wouldn't be a low handicapper.

For the high handicapper it doesn't make any difference since he can't hit the shot anyway.

[Craig Disher]

Next year - an anemometer on top of the flag that can digitally transmit the windspeed to the cart so the golfer can not only know the exact distance but the windspeed too. The computer screen in the cart can also plot wind trends so that within a certain probability the golfer can estimate the windspeed at the time his shot approaches the green. Knowing the windspeed at the time you strike the ball is really insufficient.

[Wayne Freeman]

Jeff-  I also think the 3 ribbon flag is as my kids say redic-  I like seeing the traditional flag fluttering on the green if there is wind and trying to judge how it will affect the shot. And as you know it's only one part of judging how your shot will be affected.  
   I like seeing 3 different flag colors for front middle back on courses with which I'm unfamiliar, but from a purist point of view there should only be one color flag and I like red the best for the contrast. Some courses are very hard to gauge and for low handicappers it is then very helpful to have some sort of pin sheet.
    Regarding color blindness-  about  7 percent of males are red/green colorblind and can't really differentiate the two.  It is very rare in women.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm completely partial to red flagsticks with white, unfettered numbering, a red & white striped barber pole of a stick, and no logos anywhere.

This modernist yellow stuff is ghastly.  Sorry, Brad.  

[Allan Hutton]

I tend to like pin sheets.

Rather than detract from the course I find they add to my enjoyment.

From the tee, it is often difficult to discern where the pin is placed.  The pin sheet allows me to decide from the tee, what line to pursue, in order to present a more advantageous approach shot.  Without this aid, it is normally a whack it down the middle job.

[Jeff_Brauer]

This product won a "Best new idea" or some such at the PGA show, according to the brochure, so people seem to like it.

I wonder how much it really helps.  Who knows if the wind at the green is swirling and more up in the air, for instance? And how many would know if 6MHP translates to one or two clubs, given the other factors that go into your hitting distance.

Mike - I ended up getting busy with some ASGCA stuff, so I didn't really get to cruise the show too much.  I got a gift certificate to the book store, and happened to pass that booth.  I used it to pick up the pace of play manual mentioned here on another thread, among other library additions.

There were mixed reports on attendance, but most seemed to think it was a good show overall.

[TEPaul]

In my opinion, golf courses should dispense with flags altogether and go with standards like Merion East. If a golfer wants to gauge the wind let him do it with his face only!  

Actually, I might recommend another wind gauge that might be used by golfers. Do you remember that character in Doby Gillis who wore the little skull cap with the little propeller on the top of it?

[Scott Cannon]

Matt,

  One thing I was taught to do was to check all the flag positions of future holes while playing the present hole.

Blake, I was to, and I think good architect's do give us hint's on future hole placement if you look. I think most "modern courses" however, are built though future neighborhoods, and the golfer is not given the opportunity to apply this very cool method of previewing future holes.

[Evan Fleisher]

In my opinion, golf courses should dispense with flags altogether and go with standards like Merion East. If a golfer wants to gauge the wind let him do it with his face only!  

Actually, I might recommend another wind gauge that might be used by golfers. Do you remember that character in Doby Gillis who wore the little skull cap with the little propeller on the top of it?

Ask, and 'ye shall receive...

[Garland Bayley]

...Do you remember that character in Doby Gillis who wore the little skull cap with the little propeller on the top of it?

Do I remember correctly? Was that Maynard Crebs?
Eventually to become Gilligan?

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