[MikeJones]

There's been a lot of talk here about trees directly influencing and obstructing play, tree removal etc. What about the effect that tall trees have on the wind?

We all know about ANGC's 12th hole and it's an obvious and famous example.  Hole 2 at Wentworth (West) in the UK, is another good example. It plays over a valley, and much like the rest of the course, is surrounded by tall trees which block the winds true direction and make it swirl around causing players all sorts of problems. I've seen tour pros miss the green by 30 yards and it's only an 8 or 9 iron for them. I've also seen players hitting all manner of semi punch shots to try and take the wind out of play even though the green is very much better approached with a high ball.

Is this an overlooked 'feature' of tree lined courses that would be lost of the mature tree's were subtantially cut back?

[mike_malone]

 Mike,

   I missed your smiley face. You are kidding , right!

[MikeJones]

No I'm not kidding and why would you think I was?

oh...  

BTW looking at Michael Hays' thread about the tree removal at his course, I think it looks great as efforts have been made to not just remove trees en masse, but to carefully take out ones that enhance the course.

What happens if they're all taken out though. Would that be better?

Is a swirling wind caused by tall trees relevent to a shotmaking decision? If it is, isn't that factor worth discussing here?

[TEPaul]

Mike Jones:

You are absolutely right about the quite different wind characteristics in play on holes that're tree-lined as opposed to no trees at all.

My experience has always been it's much trickier to play the wind on tree-lined holes. Holes that are treeless and completely open to the wind are far more predictable in playing the wind.

Most think the only problem with the wind in tree-lined holes is that it can swirl making it difficult to tell exactly where the wind is coming from. That's of course true but often the bigger problem is the vertical determination of wind effect. In other words it can be very hard to tell what the wind is doing (particularly in strength) when the ball gets above the trees or enters a space where the trees stop blocking wind.

[JESII]

This is a serious question even if it sounds like it might not be.

Can wind in these circumstances (on a golf course with tree lined fairways and greens) ever actually go up or down?

[TEPaul]

Sully:

Interesting question and I have no idea other than to say it's never a good idea to underestimate Mother Nature.  

All I can tell you is I've never personally seen the wind take my ball straight up or straigtht down at all but that could be because I generally hit the ball so hard the wind rarely ever effected it anyway.

[JESII]

I figured your ball flight would be unaffected, but for the rest of us, what to do?  

Have you ever had a downwind shot fall out of the air like it was shot? That's really what I'm curios about because god knows that when I happen to hit it over a green it's the USGA's fault.

[mike_malone]

 Mike,

   Excuse me , but I am just sensitive about tree management. I can imagine some people defending some stupid trees that are killing the grass and ruining the playability by saying " They promote uncertain wind conditions".

[TEPaul]

"Have you ever had a downwind shot fall out of the air like it was shot? That's really what I'm curios about because god knows that when I happen to hit it over a green it's the USGA's fault."

Yes I have had downwind shots fall out of the air like they were shot. I'm serious now. I sure have. If the wind is strong enough downwind it does tend to look like the ball is getting knocked right down.

But with me that's only happened with my 11/16th finesse downwind shot. If I hit it really hard I already told you it's pretty much a "wiiiind leavin' it alone" kinda shot even if it's a 200mph downwind shot.

I did that one time down in Florida in, I think it was hurricane Andrew that was gusting up to 200mph. I hit my really hard shot in a 200mph downwind situation and the wind didn't effect my shot at all which ended up about 6 feet. Only problem was that 200mph downwind gust launched me clear over the green. Luckily I landed with some spin in the back of a fairly soft bunker so I didn't hurt myself at all.

[JESII]

The real question is, how were you able to light your next smoke?

[mike_malone]

 Tom,

 Just imagine what would have happened to you if there were large trees in the back of that green. Do you think you would have landed in the bunker? I doubt it !!!

[Mark Studer]

An additional "overlooked factor" is that the stronger and steadier winds sans trees will dry out the greens and approaches much faster than when greensites were surrounded by the trees....especially conifers....no breeze year round with those pesky evergreens .....I always enjoyed Skynard's "Mr. Breeze".  

[MikeJones]

hah yes I see where you are coming from 'mayday'! I grew up playing moorland and links courses where trees obviously had little if any factor in my shot choices so when I started to play some well wooded courses, the swirling wind played havok with my shots.
It just occured to me that an over eager tree culling spree might alter the playing characteristics of a course in a way that hadn't been foreseen.

I know a lot of people object to trees affecting play but I think in many instances, trees can add to the strategy of a hole just as much as a well placed bunker. Having said that though, it's a shame when dense undergrowth beneath the treeline or overplanted tree areas prevent the chance of a daring recovery.

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