Professional golf to ruin another classic gem

« **on:** January 30, 2006, 07:58:26 AM »

Baltimore Country Club has been awarded the Champions Tour's Tour Championship for 3 years starting in 2007. In order to prepare for the event, we are going to stretch the course an additional 400 yards. Our #1 and #2 are going to be #17 & #18 for the event (which is good), but will each be around 480. Currently both are in the 440 range. That's okay for #2 because it is downhill and generally played with the wind, but #1 is uphill and into the prevailing breeze. Stupid. #3, the new #1, will go from 380 to 445, #5 will go from 445 uphill to 480, #11 will go from 420 uphill to 470, the tees on #12 will be pushed back and right taking the risk/reward out and forcing a layup, #13 will go from 160 to 200+, #15 will add another 30 yards. All in all I can't say that this will be good for the course, but it certainly will help it in the reseistence to scoring category.

I hate professional golf.

« **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2006, 08:14:00 AM »

Jim:

Aside from the expense, how will these changes impact the membership? Will everyone be forced to play from the new tees? I imagine that the Tuesday morning 9-hole ladies might not like that.

I guess the longer walk to the new first tee may get a bit tiresome. Hopefully the golf shop will give the members leeway to start on #17 in the future

I hate to see you get too upset about changes that will have minimal effect on how the members play the golf course. What if you looked at it as just another Monday outing that lasts a week?

Regards,

Doug

« **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2006, 08:23:47 AM »

Baltimore C.C. to host a tour event?? That right there sounds odd. I wouldn't have thought a club like that was into that stuff.

« **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2006, 09:49:42 AM »

Jim,

In order for the Senior PGA Tour to roll into Winnipeg, Mb. to play their Canadian event, St. Charles CC (Mackenzie) lengthened the course to "championship" standards. This spelt the demise for one of Mackenzie's original greens. The sad truth, the tour never used the back tees during the tournament

.

TK

« **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2006, 09:50:42 AM »

I would have thought so too, but when you have a great course that is run by non-golfers, sometimes you have to do strange things when you need money. The Tour is paying for a lot of the changes and we get an additional amount to pay for a new water system.

Another funny thing about this is our first line of defense has always been our greens and the Champions Tour guys said that we have to keep the greens at 9.5 because they don't want to embarrass anyone. I wish we kept them at 9.5 for our club championship then maybe I wouldn't have lost a match with a 6 putt on an unfair pin placement on #15 a few years ago.

And Doug, you are correct, no one has to play the new tees, but I am sure they will be in pkay for the club championship so I will have to play them on a regular basis.

« **Reply #5 on:** January 30, 2006, 09:52:14 AM »

Will the additions only include length or will structural changes be made to the existing architectural features?

« **Reply #6 on:** January 30, 2006, 09:55:25 AM »

Jim,

I sense your frustration.

Is there an architect selected to oversee the work, or will it be done by "PGA Tour Services", or whoever the folks were who oversaw the work at Harding Park?

« **Reply #7 on:** January 30, 2006, 09:57:44 AM »

When the Champions Tour was at Snoqualmie Ridge last year they played the course at more like 6300 yards, not 7000. A lot of the tees are moved up for the Champions Tour, so I do not get why they lengthen the course. Except many people do not know they move up the tees...

« **Reply #8 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:01:00 AM »

Tyler -

That is funny because I don't think they would use some of those tees they are building either.

« **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:02:32 AM »

Mike -

I believe Keith Foster may be doing the work since he helped with the previous work, but I missed the meeting last Wednesday due to a late meeting.

« **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:07:41 AM »

Jim,

Although I haven't seen Foster's redesign/restoration work personally, I do know that he bills himself as sympathetic to classic design and some of his original work seems classically inspired.

You might want to look at Southern Hills and Colonial (I believe) for some sense of his approach.

« **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:09:50 AM »

Jim - in the "silver lining" category, consider this:

at least it's not a regular Tour event.

« **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:13:11 AM »

BCC's membership can't afford to pay for an irrigation system on their own?

Wish they'd use the occasion to fix the Cupp-Kite layout instead of Tillinghast's Five Farms.

« **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:16:19 AM »

Jim,

Any chance these moves are being made with the intention of eventually hosting a regular tour event? I've never played there but have heard dozens of people rave about the course (especially the greens), and the length's of the holes being changed seem more like regular tour numbers, 440 up to 480 and such. I would be amazed if the Seniors play the full course, which makes me think they are auditioning for something bigger. Any thoughts?

« **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:17:38 AM »

Jimmy-as you know the real problem I have is the change at #12 which will result in the good player not being confronted with options off the tee and thereby taking a hybrid and plating straight. we all know that when you have to start thinking on a golf course, it can lead to errors.

By the way, I think #1 usually plays down wind b/c of southern breezes during most of the golf season.

I can't believe that the greens will be at 9.5 and that this thing is gonna take place during the best time of the year and the only time of the year that the place is in great shape

« **Reply #15 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:21:33 AM »

Brad K---YOU ARE SO RIGHT ON THE MONEY!! We had the chance to do the right thing some 15 years ago, but got caught up the Caves Valley phenomenon and our pro was a close buddy of Kite and next thing you know, the West Course was born...and what a bad birth in light of the fact that we still had the original Tilly plans/routing.

« **Reply #16 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:23:41 AM »

I played BCC in late September. It was a nasty storm in the morning as I drove down, and then it magically cleared and was a beautiful day. It saddens me to think of playing BCC with corpotate tents on the Cupp course and grandstands on the Tilly course? It is really a peaceful setting out there.

Jim,

Around what week is that event played?

« **Reply #17 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:25:57 AM »

The event will be the first weekend in October...ugh...and the corporate tents will be on the first hole of the West

« **Reply #18 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:30:46 AM »

Isn't there already a Champions Tour event down the road at Hayfields?

« **Reply #19 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:31:11 AM »

Brad -

We have 2200 members give or take a few and about 775 golf members so when the assessment vote came out for the course, it didn't pass as the non-golfers didn't care.

« **Reply #20 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:32:30 AM »

Matt -

Yes, but it is a regular event, this is supposed to be the yearend "championship".

« **Reply #21 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:34:25 AM »

Money. That was my first thought here. Somebody wants to "upgrade" the course and the Tour has the money. Sell their soul to the devil.

This is just a thought, but why isn't there a "fund" or organization, similer to what we have with preserving building architecture, to assist historic courses that might be getting "long in the tooth" and need some upgrading?

Their role might include being a resource for historic information and to promote activism (?)....rally the troops so to speak when something truely ugly is about to happen.

Personally I see two things here...saving historic golf courses from terrible and often misguided physical changes and the desire to preserve green space....

« **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2006, 11:34:22 AM »

TEPaul,

I agree with you, I'm a little surprised as well.

Brad Klein,

I thought that the club just spent a very substantial sum to upgrade many of their facilities.

I would think that it's a matter of will, rather than finances, that caused the club to reject the project.

Or perhaps it was too much, too soon after the other projects.

« **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2006, 10:34:41 PM »

Isn't there an upside to this development? I for one would love to have TV announcers saying the greens are stipping at 9, because they are fabulous classic greens and they need to putt at a speed appropriate for their slopes.

My home course is talking about mitigating some of the slopes of our greens. I love the challenge of getting the ball in the right position, and would hate to have them reduce the thought and strategy of playing them.

« **Reply #24 on:** January 31, 2006, 09:35:36 AM »

Jim: One redeeming factor is that they aren't messing with the greens so the members can play the course as it was meant to be played. If they are so concerned about length then how are they going to deal with #18? Couldn't they simply admit 20 new golf members and be able to do everything they need to without the hassles and problems of dealing with a tour event?

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