Bad caddie = bad experience?

[Jerry Kluger]

I am not talking about personalities rather you go to play an unfamiliar course and the caddie you are assigned is awful. He gives you wrong distances or you ask him to help you read some putts and he is clearly wrong - does that ruin the day or can you separate that from the experience of playing the course?

[grandwazo]

Ruins the day for me....there is no worse feeling than playing a course for the first time and putting your trust in a caddy who proceeds to hand you a club on the first hole that when perfectly struck and hit exactly on the line told to, ends up either out of bounds or in a spot from which the next shot cannot be played from...or, on the first green, gives you a line for a putt that goes dead left instead of right.  What's the point after that?

On the other hand, a great caddie can totally make the day as well if he/she can wear the hats of a psychologist, teamate, friend, and cheerleader all at the same time.  I've had many more more of the second than the first.

[PCCraig]

As a one time caddy at a upscale semi-private club outside of Chicago that gets a lot of outside guest play, I can honestly say that just because caddy that gives you advice that doesnt work well, doesnt mean he is a bad caddy. A bad caddy is one that cannot do the normal tasks durring a round, IE yardages, raking bunkers, keeping pace, being personable.

I think what most players don't realize is that a caddy wants you to play well and have a good time. If you play well, that means less work for us. If you have a good time, you'll tip more. Many times a player will get this idea that we are trying to "screw" them, which is unjustified.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jerry:

I've had that type of experience - only one or two times, but I do understand your question.  I chose to look at it like Pat just posted, because I too have caddied myself (oh so long ago).  It would have to be the VERY rare caddie who purposefully screws you, because it effects his own pocketbook!  So one just has to assume he's doing the best he can... and then one just stops asking for that type of advice.  Hell it's not all that necessary most times anyway.  Then yes, enjoy the course for what it is.

It didn't ruin the day for me.  The caddie didn't ADD much, but he surely didn't ruin it.

TH

[John_Cullum]

Only once did a "bad" caddy affect my experience. At prestwick my caddy was an 18 year old kid with an attitude. We had a misunderstanding around the 4th hole and I fought that all day long.

My caddy at East lake was a 13 year old neighborhood kid who didn't know the first thing about golf, about all he knew was how to keep up and point me to the next tee. He was just fine. Hell, he's really what a caddy ought to be. I remember him as well or better than any other caddy.

[redanman]

Bad Caddie?

Gets ignored.

He/She becomes a MULE" at my request.  

Info passed on:

Carry bag
Pass my driver and putter to me, cover on
Give club(s) asked for
Clean clubs
Clean balls
Rake bunkers
Attend flagstick
Answer questions asked, if the answer is "I don't know", just say so.
Take absolutely no further initiative, not even yardages.

Works out great, happy end of story.

[rjsimper]

I don't use caddies for distances and reads - I use them to carry my clubs, to chat with about their time at this and other courses, and to suggest strategy.  

Occasionally I will ask for help on a long putt or one I am completely lost on, but otherwise, I look to the caddy to complete the experience, not to make me a better player on that day.

That being said, I don't think it DETRACTS from the experience to have a poor looper, but a good one certainly enhances it a great deal.

(Is the singular spelling caddy or caddie?)

[Andy Scanlon]

I had a terrible caddie the first time I played Winged Foot, it did not affect my experience there in the least.  Of course, I figured out early on (the 2nd green) that he has no clue and should disregard anything he said the rest of the day!

[redanman]

(Is the singular spelling caddy or caddie?)

caddie

[Andy Hughes]

I have actually never had a caddy, but it sometimes strikes me as counter-productive.
Does it enhance the experience to have someone else tell you exactly how far to hit which club and on what line?  I suspect I like redanman's take on it best--it sounds like he wants to figger it all out on his own.
Why would a gca-er voluntarily want to hand over the keys to the decision-making and thought process?

[Tom Huckaby]

Andy:

Of course that would be stupid - but it's a rare person who hands over the keys completely!

In the end YOU hit the shots - the final decisions are thus YOURS, however you treat this.  I have at times had a caddie so good, at a place so new or odd to me, I have ceded control and just tried my best to hit where he aimed me.  But that is a rare event indeed.  And even at those times, well.. the choices are discussed and reasoning understood, and in the end my choice is to trust him, he knows the course far better than I do.

In terms of strategic choices, hell it would take a VERY important match for me to give that much credence to such, but yes, those might get discussed as well.  I can't see ceding that part of it wholly to the caddie... at most that has to be a consensus.

What I have done from time to time is cede control of reading of putts - but that too is a rare thing - and I do that only because I find I am not very good at it, or at least, I concentrate on stroke better when I have someone else taking over the reading part.  I've had some darn good putting days with caddies.  But I've had bad ones as well.

In the end, I'm with those who treat golf with caddies as something that can only add to the experience.  It damn near always does.  But to let it be a detractor... man unless the caddie was abusive or rude or something, I'd say that's the fault of the golfer.

TH

[Andy Hughes]

Of course that would be stupid - but it's a rare person who hands over the keys completely!

Well, I would obviously agree with that. I wish I had kept the link, but there was a discussion here about caddies not that long ago and some were saying how good a caddie was, told them exactly what to hit and where etc. My jaw hit the keyboard.
I would expect that from normal people, but not the freaks here at gca!
(PS Yes, I can readily understand when playing a place like Prestwick that some guidance would be most helpful the first go-around. But I would prefer it be more descriptive of what is ahead and what the options are, rather than, 'here, hit the 5 iron at that steeple'.)

[Tom Huckaby]

Andy - just understand that handing over the keys has to be a very rare exception, for anyone, including the freaks here.  That being said, I can certainly see at an unfamiliar course developing a strong rapport (sp?) with a great caddie such that it might happen.  In the end it could be seen as fun in its own right, as it would be so DIFFERENT from normal play.

TH

[mike_malone]

 When I played Pine Valley last year i had a disagreement with my caddy. He wanted me to layup from trouble all the time. "I want you to break 100 " , he kept saying. I wanted to hit that 200 yard hook out of the rough over the hazard. It did diminish my enjoyment. I shot a fast pencil 97.

[Tom Huckaby]

mayday - that would diminish things for sure.

But couldn't you have told him early on that you didn't care about breaking 100, that you wanted to hit some fun but strategically crazy shots?

Or did you try that and he didn't buy it?

The latter would suck most of all.  At that point, can't see a good way to avoid round diminishment other than to REALLY focus on the course's greatness and/or cool playing partners.

TH

[Jerry Kluger]

A bad caddie is one who gives information which is wrong and he knew that he did not really know the answer to the question.  Advice is a different story where the caddie advises you to lay up and you choose not to and you suffer the consequences - that's you're own fault.  

I don't know about you but I know I've played any number of courses where a good caddie will give me a read on a putt and he's right and I would never have seen it.  What a bad caddie does is tell you what a putt will do and he's wrong and he really never knew the answer to begin with.  That aggravates me and can detract from my enjoyment of a course.  I'm not bad at reading greens so if I ask him and he tells me that he's not sure then he's being honest and I can see how well I did on my own and I have no problem with that.

[mike_malone]

 Tom,
    He was not listening.

[Tom Huckaby]

Mayday - gotcha - that does really suck.  His tip ought to have been "don't take any wooden nickels."

 

[archie_struthers]

 


sunny tomorrow in SJ


Bad caddies are awful and probably worse than carrying your own, particularly for those of us blessed with good health. I have to agree with RedanMan to advise your caddy who is bad and loud that Sampson killed 10,000 Philistines with the jawbone of an ass!

There is always the exception to the rule like Rocky Carbone at Pine Valley who while not an especially proficient tactician, though much improved, is one of the funniest guys on the planet. Even so at times his diatribes get him in trouble!

In the immortal words of the great ex-looper Teddy Roosevelt, "walk softly and carry the damn sticks"!!

Bully, Bully!!!!


However, a good caddy (caddie?) at your side is the best way to go!

[Steve Pieracci]

Yes, Bad caddie = Bad experience.  I have limited caddie experience, but most of what I remember about SFGC is the horrible caddie.   My caddie's favorite line that day was "It's all you can hit!"  

On the other hand, Good caddie = Good experience.  I had great caddies at Prestwick and Royal Troon.  They really helped out.  After a few holes, they found out we weren't lying about our playing abilities, and they took it from there.  

Could this be a UK vs US discrepancy?

Not enough experience to make that leap.    

[Jerry Kluger]

No question a good caddie can make the experience better - but a bad one really bothers me - at least some bad ones have taken the hint when I simply ignore them.  

[Dan Boerger]

A good caddie can make all the difference. And not just to your score, but to the enjoyment of the round. Not surprisingly, some of the best caddie experiences I've had have been at some of the best courses I've played: Seminole, PVGC, National, Winged Foot. On a somewhat related subject, I've always thought that clubs that are working to establish a caddie program should charge the same for carts as they do for caddies.

[Ian Andrew]

Had more great experiences than bad by a large number. Never had a bad one with a junior caddy!

But I have had a few condescending caddies at a couple of exclussive private club. It always revolves around your game not being up to their caddying abilities.

[Gordon Oneil]

Surely, a good/great caddy both enhances the time spent on the course just as hopefully he has a positive effect on his player's score.  But while a caddy's quality of work is only a single variable of many effecting his player's success and enjoyment of any given round, a bad/grumpy/incompetent caddy is always (unfairly and mistakenly) the reason for a player's poor play and subsequent boorish behavior.  "I shot 105, but I had a terrible caddy who read greens like Ronnie Milsap.  Should have been a 78."  
In all the rounds of golf I've played, whether casual or competitive, I have to see a caddy hit a single shot.
Point is, he is far too often blamed for the bad ones.

[Bill Gayne]

Bad caddie = poor club management.

Caddies are bad because they have either not been trained, they are inexperienced, or of poor work ethic. If inexperienced you should know that you are getting a junior caddie upfront and expect a lower level of service. Failure to train is really inexcusable and does reflect on the club.

We had one caddie in Ireland that stole from the bag and it was a bad experience when we caught him with missing item. I also had a caddie once that after nine holes I asked him if wanted anything to drink and he got a large can of Heineken around 10 in the morning. Maybe he was drinking to forget the previous nine holes. But yes it does lead to a bad experience.