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Jerry Kluger

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Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« on: January 19, 2006, 09:58:29 AM »
I was wondering what courses you view as having the potential to be vastly improved through renovation or restoration? There have to be some that if some money was spent renovating the course that it would be dramatically improved.  There are also some great classical courses which could be dramatically improved through tree removal or bunker restoration, etc.  
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Jason Mandel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2006, 10:12:46 AM »
Jerry,

The course that pops to mind is Manny's near Philadelphia.  I believe Ron Forse has already started but that place has some great holes on some great land that will be greatly improved once they get rid of the forrest.

I'm sure their are lots of others.

Jason
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You learn more about a man on a golf course than anywhere else

contact info: jasonymandel@gmail.com

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2006, 10:18:06 AM »
 When you realize that a wonderful course is already there if you only open it up,then that seems to be the best and cheapest opportunity for restoration--Torresdale Frankford is a layup.
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AKA Mayday

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2006, 10:24:56 AM »
How about Apache Stronghold - is it just a matter of neglect or does it  need some restoration work to bring it back?
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Andy Scanlon

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Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2006, 10:28:25 AM »
I agree with Mayday :o :o about T-F; the tee shot on #2, I believe, is the most narrow I ever remember seeing -- it makes the fairway look about 10 yards wide.
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All architects will be a lot more comfortable when the powers that be in golf finally solve the ball problem. If the distance to be gotten with the ball continues to increase, it will be necessary to go to 7,500 and even 8000 yard courses.  
- William Flynn, golf architect, 1927

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2006, 10:28:26 AM »
I agree with Torresdale-Frankford and Apache Stronghold. I would add some publics too- Split Rock in The Bronx, Cobbs Creek here in Philadelphia and Rock Creek in DC.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

corey miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2006, 10:29:12 AM »


Sleepy Hollow NY- Macdonald/Tille with much modernization over the years including an early 1990's bunker and mounding desecration of a classic course by Rees.  Received a modernization plan from Ken Dye.  Looks like the club is heading in the right direction now.

Working with George Bahto and Gil Hanse.
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Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2006, 10:32:29 AM »
We've had quite a few courses in the DC area renovated by Arthur Hills and they all look the same - Woodmont CC is now considering renovating their greens as the bunkers were done by AH - I would say a renovation of the greens by Hansen or Forse would serve them well.
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PThomas

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Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2006, 10:39:31 AM »
Papago Pk in Az
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2006, 10:47:14 AM »
Paul: Forrest Richardson said recently that Papago was in pretty good shape and fun to play.  I believe he is part of the restoration team - do you know what they plan on doing and when as I will be there in April.
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2006, 11:03:04 AM »
Jerry

Re: Papago

From what Forrest said, this project may not get off the ground until 2007 at the earliest. There is a civic group headed by a former Mayor of Phoenix leading the effort. They have to deal with the city government. It will take some time. This is the first winter in a few years that the city has overseeded their courses. I will probably be in PHX in April too. Let's get together at Papago if we're there at the same time.

Steve
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Mike Vegis @ Kiawah

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2006, 11:03:54 AM »
The one that's about the begin right here in South Carolina, restoring Raynor's Country Club of Charleston to it's original state! ;D
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Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2006, 11:42:01 AM »
I played Maidstone this year and I felt that it could use a freshening - not any design work but a decision of what to do with the cartpaths, what to do with some of the weeds, etc. - what do you think?
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TEPaul

Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2006, 02:53:33 PM »
"I played Maidstone this year and I felt that it could use a freshening - not any design work but a decision of what to do with the cartpaths..."

Jerry"

Cartpaths? What cartpaths?
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Kyle Harris

Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2006, 02:57:02 PM »
Bias: The Park holes on the PSU White Course

Manny's would be my front runner.

Philly Cricket to be restored to some of the original Tillie bunkering.
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Gene Greco

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Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2006, 02:59:53 PM »
Poster child for this one is the Southampton Golf Club.

Classic Raynor design "modernized" in mid 1960's to better reflect RT Jones style of that era. Work done by Mitchell.

Every Raynor bunker removed except three.

However, routing intact and greens shrunken but contours still very much intact.

Battle among members continues as to whether bunker restoration will ever be realized. Brian Silva has drawn up a master plan.
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"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

ForkaB

Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2006, 03:24:32 PM »
Weston (MA) has a lot of potential if they brought it back to the old Ross routing.  It would be shorter, but compact and with a pleasing amount of quirk.
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Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2006, 03:31:44 PM »
TEP: When we played on guy rode because of a disability and there were ruts and sand with grass in the middle which were where he was to take the cart.  They really needed to either get rid of them or finish them in some way and figure out how to maintain the area.
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PCCraig

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Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2006, 05:26:09 PM »
By far the best I have seen is Glen View Club in Golf, IL....host of the 1904 U.S. Open. It was a so so gold course for many years before David Esler came in and fixed the whole place up, took out tons of trees. Now its the most underrated golf course in Chicago.
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H.P.S.

Bill Gayne

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Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2006, 08:15:40 PM »
ANGC?
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RSLivingston_III

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Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2006, 08:46:33 PM »
How about Belvedere GC in N. MI?
I created this animated gif that flips every 10 seconds between the current aerial and a 1938 USGS.
http://www.hickorygolf.com/downloads/belvedere.gif
The famous 16th is in the top right.
Check "Golf Course Architecture in America" and see the three holes that Thomas covered of this great example of Willie Watsons work.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 08:47:05 PM by Ralph_Livingston »
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"You need to start with the hickories as I truly believe it is hard to get inside the mind of the great architects from days gone by if one doesn't have any sense of how the equipment played way back when!"  
       Our Fearless Leader

Craig_Rokke

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Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2006, 09:43:29 PM »
Another for Torresdale-Frankford.

Another SE PA sleeper is Locust Valley which, of course, is slated for closure at the end of 06'. I'd love to see the local
municipality step in the save the course. Then they could trim back years of unchecked tree growth, as well as adding a bunch of strategic bunkering. There are also a couple too many totally straight holes. I'd be very interested to see how good the final product could be.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2006, 10:00:40 PM by Craig_Rokke »
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Gerry B

Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2006, 09:56:33 PM »
as i referenced in numerous threads -Peace Portal on the Canada -US Border south of vanvouver - built in the 1920's during prohibition - what a surprise(lol)

incredible piece of property - the current owners are so clueless they do not know any of the club history including the original designer

the place could the pacific northwest  version of shoreacres / myopia / bel air / olympic, etc. currently aroiund 6400 yds -could be lengthened to maybe  a 6600 yd par 70

scarboro in toronto (only tilly course north of the border) has some all world holes - but with some serious renovation / restoration  of the 4-5 weak holes plus some bunker / cleanup work could be top 100 in the world - or at least classic top 100 at worst  imho
an incredible piece of property
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Mark Brown

Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2006, 10:33:59 PM »
Restoration: to the way the course was in 2000 -- Augusta N.

Kahkwa Club: execellent Ross course in Erie, Pa.

Old Tabby: by C&C who was originally slated to do it.
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mark chalfant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Best candidate for restoration/renovation.
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2006, 11:07:43 AM »
Plum  Hollow ( Alison)

Wakonda  (Langford)

Somerset (Raynor)

Rogell  (Ross)
« Last Edit: January 20, 2006, 04:30:20 PM by mark chalfant »
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