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Patrick_Mucci

Fill er up !
« on: January 08, 2006, 10:19:04 PM »
Is "Shell's Wonderful World of Golf" and other specialty events the best way to see the architecture of famous golf courses ?

Today, I was watching a match from New Zealand and liked the hole by hole views and the views of the individual architectural features.

I don't plan on being in New Zealand in the near future, so for me this was a nice treat and exposure to architecture and a golf course I may never get to.

Likewise, the coverage of the Mercedes Championship seemed to showcase some of the architecture.

With "Shell's Wonderful World of Golf" you get to see the golf course from the first tee to the 18th hole, something that's rare in broadcasts today.

How should we support Shell's efforts to televise golf matches from famous golf courses ?

Andrew Cunningham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2006, 10:23:28 PM »
Buy more gas! ;D

Bill_McBride

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2006, 10:25:54 PM »
I find it very disappointing that the modern Shell series features residential courses that are willing to pay for the exposure.

It was, as Patrick says, wonderful to be able to see courses like Sunningdale, St. Andrews Old Course, Pine Valley, Pebble Beach, and many other great courses, U.S. and international.  The start to finish coverage was great.

An added and terrific benefit was having Gene Sarazen as the color commentator along with Jimmy Demaret!

The modern series is really lightweight alongside the classics.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2006, 10:26:26 PM by Bill_McBride »

Tom Jefferson

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2006, 10:27:56 PM »
Patrick;
Write a letter to the persons responsible, communicating what you enjoyed about the telecasts and thanking them for their efforts.  Simple.

Tom
the pres

David_Elvins

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2006, 10:34:15 PM »
Pat,

I love the Shell Wonderful World of Golf videos even when they just make up scores to keep the matches interesting.  Pine Valley is one of my favorites.  

One thing I was thinking the other day was how easy it would be, with the proliferation of relatively hi-tech movie cameras and home editing software to do your own version of Shells Wonderfull World of Golf.  I would love to see Tom Paul vs Pat Mucci at NGLA.  

You would just need to go out there with three or four video cameras and then get some whizz bang kid to sit at home on his computer editing it down to an hour, adding graphics, hole layouts and the commentary of a couple of eteemed GCA gentleman.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2006, 10:36:10 PM by David_Elvins »
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2006, 10:55:24 PM »
David,

That's actually a great idea.

If the club would permit it, I'd like nothing better than to walk the golf course with TEPaul, George Bahto and Bill Salinetti, pointing out and commenting on the various architectural features and their influence on the play of the hole as they're encountered from the 1st tee to the 18th green.

TEPaul, Bill Salinetti and I will probably be there in June, perhaps George will be available as well.

It's a neat idea if the club would approve of it.

I was greatly disappointed when the USGA didn't award the Walker Cup to NGLA.   Over the years Merion's received more than adequate TV exposure, NGLA none.  
It would have been wonderful to introduce the golfing world to NGLA on National TV.

Gene Greco

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2006, 11:07:31 PM »
   I think you're all on to something here. :o

A sort of travel show featuring the stars of GCA.com who will take you to the most intriguing and exclusive golf courses in the world.

"Lifestyles of Golf Architecture Wackos" with Uncle George playing the role of Robin Leach only with a Jersey accent.

Sell it to the Golf Channel instead of those moronic staged reality shows they have been featuring.

I believe America is ready to be introduced to Patrick Mucci and his sidekick, Tom Paul, the "Pink Lion."
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Joel_Stewart

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2006, 11:23:48 PM »
I watched it today as well, first time I had seen Kauri Cliffs.  I wasn't that overwhelmed by the course but it looked OK.  I still wish they would do a show from Sand Hills or Bandon.

Can Shell or Jack Nicklaus productions find someone else than Fred Couples?   For a guy with a bad back, he sure travels alot.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2006, 12:05:43 AM »
Here is a list of SWWG matches through 1991:

http://tinyurl.com/cqd2u

"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

PThomas

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2006, 12:09:18 AM »
does the Golf Channel ever do any shows like this?  you'd think once in awhile, with all the time they have to kill, they could send out a couple cameramen with a Ben Crenshaw or the like to discuss courses like B Trails...
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Lloyd_Cole

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2006, 12:16:22 AM »
One can pick up the old VhS's quite cheaply if you look around. It's still the only insight I have to Pine Valley and what a fun match that was! (Current US Open champ) Liitler vs (long retired) Nelson. And conversely - Champions, if I recall correctly (said VHS's are in a box somewhere) where Hogan hits 17 greens and you might as well have watched him on the range..

I haven't seen much recently to whet any kind of appetite. Is there anything worth seeing??

And if we're filming. I'll take on allcomers at Williamsburg National (Beaver Brook). 9 holes. Denims mandatory.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 12:21:01 AM by Lloyd_Cole »

Kevin_Reilly

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2006, 12:37:14 AM »
And conversely - Champions, if I recall correctly (said VHS's are in a box somewhere) where Hogan hits 17 greens and you might as well have watched him on the range..

Houston Country Club, I believe.
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2006, 12:44:46 AM »
Love the D.I.Y. Wonderful World of Golf idea.

TV will gradually become what the recording industry is today -- a dinosaur that can't defend itself against the insurgents with their own video equipment. What a gas if we joined the insurgents with our own handheld camcorders -- now dirt-cheap and really high-quality -- to begin exchanging DVDs or computer downloads of our own matches at great courses.

The TV networks will only do it if they can make money at it. With their overhead, they need more viewers than these shows would be likely to generate. But we could be like Deadheads taping and exchanging concerts, except we would do golf courses. With the approval of said courses, of course...after all, we're not bootleggers. :)
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

RJ_Daley

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2006, 01:15:17 AM »
What woud be the market for production of such a series, but strictly for DVD rental or sale?  Hell, I'd buy one of Mucci, Bahto, Paul, and Salinetti (even though I don't know him) at NGLA all explaining the course as they hack it around.  

'Sir Boab' would definitely have to be the comentator.

Maybe GCA.com should open a video subsidiary. 8)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 01:16:09 AM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Garland Bayley

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2006, 02:09:40 AM »
Following a dress code is such an easy thing to do. To those of you who object, "Me thinks you protest too much."
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Evan Fleisher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2006, 09:30:19 AM »
What woud be the market for production of such a series, but strictly for DVD rental or sale?  Hell, I'd buy one of Mucci, Bahto, Paul, and Salinetti (even though I don't know him) at NGLA all explaining the course as they hack it around.  

'Sir Boab' would definitely have to be the comentator.

Maybe GCA.com should open a video subsidiary. 8)

"Ohhhh...look at that shot, what a pity..."
Born Rochester, MN. Grew up Miami, FL. Live Cleveland, OH. Handicap 13.2. Have 26 & 23 year old girls and wife of 29 years. I'm a Senior Supply Chain Business Analyst for Vitamix. Diehard walker, but tolerate cart riders! Love to travel, always have my sticks with me. Mollydooker for life!

Dan_Callahan

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2006, 09:50:53 AM »


I haven't seen much recently to whet any kind of appetite. Is there anything worth seeing??


The Couples vs. Mickelson match at Gaillardia in Oklahoma was one of my favorites. It's a course I had never heard of, yet it looks to be outstanding (at least on TV). It was also fascinating to watch Mickelson outdrive Couples by 50 yards on a consistent basis. I think even Freddie was blown away by how far Phil was hitting it.

There was also a point where the two caddies went head to head, with Phil and Freddie carrying their bags. You get a good insight into what a know-it-all Phil is—he can't seem to keep his mouth shut and just let his caddie play.

Ed_Baker

Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2006, 11:56:37 AM »
No question Shell has been part of exposing the masses to golf and it's great venues over the years, some of those matches from the 60's were great for the game.

Unfortunately the world changes and so do companies, following is some insight in to what Shell has become.

I was very fortunate to have been one of Shells largest independent dealers in the Boston/ Providence district for 31 years. Through that business relationship I was treated to V.I.P. guest status at the Shell Houston Open for many years, the SHO week was always a highlight of the year for my wife and I. We were able to play and dine with golfs best players and we still enjoy friendships with many of the pros we met over the years. Shell was a great company to do business with and I wouldn't trade those years for anything.

Unfortunately in July 1998 Shell merged with Texaco and they went from a performance based dealer oriented company to a company operated retail presence and strictly jobber distribution in the smaller markets. I have no problem with companies evolving and changing to preserve their own existence, it's as neccesarry as oxygen to mammals, but their methodology was inexcusable.

The carnage in the dealer sector was monumental,bankruptcies,divorces,health problems, suicides, it wasn't pretty, many 50 and 60 old year family businesses went down the drain.

 The way Shell implemented the change in their marketing strategy was just brutal, a certified letter was sent with 10 days notice to the dealers to sign a new agreement with no performance incentives and an average rent increase of between 100 and 500% coupled with three year instead of five year leases was just beyond belief. The alternative was non renewal and immediate termination. The value of the franchises became virtually non existent overnight.

A group of long term dealers sued and won, the case is in appeal now and the case is in it's 8th year, with the plantiffs (dealers)attorneys 3.5 million dollars wealthier, God knows what Shell (Motiva) has spent. All a drop in the bucket to this behemoth.

Exxon/Mobil has been moving in the same direction as well,in some markets dealer operations are not profitable for them, the difference is that Mobil has been changing it's station census gradually, honoring existing contracts and giving their dealers plenty of notice of their plans and in many cases buying the franchises back from the dealer or offering jobber contracts.

I seriously doubt if Shell cares about the opinion of a small segment of golfers and what courses they would like to see on Wonderful World of Golf, at one time, say even 10 years ago they might have. They have fallen a long way from the old "Shell with platformate" commercials and Slammin' Sammy Snead picking up those checks.

David Druzisky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2006, 12:30:30 PM »
Eds account makes me sad :-[

You have to wonder if those old original events and broadcasts were really just someones passion.  Thinking about how many CEOs are the country club type, if they tend to push for those things even though they don't pencil for profit?

There were some other similar series in the 50's I believe - cant remember the name.  I was watching the Golf Channel once and one of those old matches came up played in 55 or 56.  It was held at a club I was doing work on (Paradise Valley CC).  I did not know it had existed as know one at the club had ever brought it up.  I initially tried to track it down but to no avail with the golf channel.  The club eventually did and they now have copies for the members - I think.

It is a shame they offer it up for sale and don't just make the venue selection a type of competition that courses and clubs strive for.  I got to think they would have a lot more viewers if the venues were the current talk of the town, such as Bandon, Sand Hills, etc.  Special places not just high dollar places.  Soe of the old clubs may even jump in if well done.  Same with the players.  It could be the top two money winners each year.  It would be a "Who is going to knock off Tiger this year?" thing.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2006, 01:22:52 PM »
You can find info on Shell's WWOG at www.shell.com

If you click thru 2 or 3 times, you get the the WWOG site. They say the series is currently on "hiatus."

Most of the matches are available for purchase on either VHS or DVD. You can buy a package of Sarazen v. Cotton (at TOC), Hogan v. Snead (at Champions) and Nelson v. Littler (at Pine Valley) for about $42.

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2006, 04:09:47 PM »
I would imagine that high tech has reduced production costs, but, that the cost to attract high profile players has risen dramatically.

I wonder what happens to the market when you remove the high profile players.

The idea of recording a combination golf-architecture event during the play of a match at NGLA, Sand Hills, Pacific Dunes, etc., etc., would seem quite interesting, even if the match was, like the WWF, orchestrated, with an eye toward highlighting the architectural features and risk-reward of the golf holes.

Having Boab as the commentator would be great.

As would the recording of Ran's painful losses on many wonderful sites.

TEPaul,

Are you interested ?

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2006, 05:24:46 PM »
Can Shell or Jack Nicklaus productions find someone else than Fred Couples?   For a guy with a bad back, he sure travels alot.

SWWOG was a "competition", a match play type format where the winner continued on, all they never crowned a Champion (I believe).  Freddy kept on being invited back because he won ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Sean Leary

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2006, 05:56:49 PM »
Shivas,

Go to Oregon and rent a car. There you are not allowed to pump your own gas.  How is that for a reason to do a Bandon trip? ;)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 05:57:18 PM by Sean Leary »

Joel_Stewart

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2006, 06:35:53 PM »
Can Shell or Jack Nicklaus productions find someone else than Fred Couples?   For a guy with a bad back, he sure travels alot.

SWWOG was a "competition", a match play type format where the winner continued on, all they never crowned a Champion (I believe).  Freddy kept on being invited back because he won ...

You're thinking of the Skins game.  Thanks god Fred Funk won this year.   Fred Couples will go anywhere he gets a guarantee and a limited field.

James Bennett

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Re:Fill er up !
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2006, 06:44:49 PM »
I would like to see Crenshaw vs Clayton, perhaps at Royal Melbourne.  With persimmon woods.  I'm sure Mike could do the commentary as well. ;D  (By the way, when does Ben Crenshaw turn 50, and is he likly to grace the senior circuit?  My apologies for the question if he already is/has).

I'd also like to see a 36 hole match at St Andrews Old Course - 18 in the normal direction and 18 in the reverse.  

Nice to dream.

James B

« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 06:46:30 PM by James Bennett »
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)