How the Clubhouse Relates to the Course

[Tom_Doak]

I'm not sure if it is (or should be) a factor in the rankings of golf courses, but a large part of the character of a great club is contained in how the clubhouse feels a part of the whole.

As Brad Klein mentioned elsewhere, the smaller operations seem better suited for intimacy than the massive clubhouses preferred by new private clubs.  (Although, amazingly enough, places like Riviera and Oakland Hills have an intimate connection despite their massive clubhouses.)

The only courses I've done where I'm really thrilled with the relationship to the clubhouse are the two at Stonewall, plus Cape Kidnappers and Barnbougle Dunes ... Stonewall because they are the only courses we've done where the clubhouse was already there for us to relate to, Kidnappers because the site was so small there wasn't any elbow room, and Barnbougle because it's the only course where the owner let me put the building exactly where I wanted to.

On most projects, the clubhouse doesn't start until we are basically finished, and I've rarely been given any input into the footprint of the building.  And of course we've got four or five courses which still don't have a real clubhouse ... Pacific Dunes' setup isn't bad for a temporary trailer.

One observation:  on nearly all my favorite courses, the pro shop is separate from the clubhouse, and in many cases that allows both of them to have an intimate relationship to the course, which they would not have had if combined.

[Bill_McBride]

Given your description of the ideal situation, I'm sure we share a deep affection for the Valley Club's arrangement!

That view from the 14th tee, over the 14th and 1st greens and up the fairway to that lovely white clubhouse, has to be one of the greatest in golf.

[Andy Doyle]

Tom:

The only course of yours I've played is Beechtree.  I don't remember too much about the clubhouse, but I liked the outbuilding down by the range.  It was perfect - a little snack shop and a covered porch overlooking the range.

After playing a morning round I didn't have enough time to go around again, so I had lunch down there, hung out on the porch, then hit some balls on the range.  Quiet & simple.

Andy

[Scott Cannon]

Tom,
I agree. I played LA North last year and people eat formal dinners on the veranda that overlooks the course and Sunningdale's clubhouse with it clock is still one of the most memorable parts of my rounds there, besides the halfway house stop for tea behind the 10th hole.

[Joel_Stewart]

I'm not sure if it is (or should be) a factor in the rankings of golf courses, but a large part of the character of a great club is contained in how the clubhouse feels a part of the whole.

I don't agree with the assuption that the clubhouse has anything to do with the rankings.   You never here how great Cypress Point, Pebble Beach or Pine Valleys clubhouses fit into the rankings?

With that said, many of the newer courses have modern well designed clubhouses that are architectural marvels in themselves.  If a panelist chooses to somehow figure that into the equation, shame on them.

[Tom Huckaby]

Joel - in the GW dicta, they HAVE to consider the clubhouse.  Damn I forget where it is but this was posted on a recent thread - word for word as to how it was to be considered. Given the GD-bashing and GW love-fest in here, I nearly died laughing.

 

FIGHT ON!

USC 45, UT 24.

[Sean_A]

The North Berwick clubhouse excells in matching not only the course, but the town.  I also really like the idea of an underground proshop that is slyly in play on the 18th.  

Deal also has a clubhouse which is nearly unique being across the road.  The only interface is from the club out to the course rather than seeing the course as a beacon for home.  Again, a separate proshop.  

Delamere Forest also has an interesting house.  One can easily see the tee of the 1st, 9th and 10th and the greens of the 9th and 18th.  It is like avenues leading away from the house, beckoning the the player to tee it up.  The house is unique because part of the building is an old pavilion which has been enclosed.  It really feels like 1910 in that part of the house without any memorabilia to take one back in time.  Quite remarkable.  Oh, the proshop is separate.

Last, but not least is Gullane.  The house is across a wee street and again it doesn't serve as a beacon for the golfer.  This is a cracking house because it feels like a house!  I love how the windows overlook the putting green and several holes.  I reckon most people don't even know where the Gullane clubhouse is-it blends that well with the row of houses.  Gullane also has the distinction of the bar swinging into the men's lockeroom with a female bartender!  

Ciao

Sean

[Matt_Ward]

Tom D:

Frankly, the clubhouse element is akin to the manner by which the food is presented -- think of the curtains and the silverware at any restaurant. The main item for any restaurant should be the food and on the golf front the main frame design alone.

When people allow themselves to confuse / merge one item with the other than you can understand how certain courses get "brownie" points because of the size of their shower heads and if a particular food item is high on the charts or if particular knick knacks -- like specially crafted tees and the like make up some sort of goodie bag when visiting.

[M. Shea Sweeney]

 I'm not sure if it makes it a better course, but the clubhouse at Mid Pines adds to the whole traditional feeling while you play the course. Also makes for a great finishing hole.

[JNC Lyon]

The two best courses on my limited resume also possess my two favorite clubhouses, The Country Club (Brookline) and St. George's (Toronto).

[TEPaul]

I very much liked the clubhouse to course relationship at Alwoodley.

[Scott Witter]

I can't imagine how, or for whatever obscure reason the clubhouse would be part of the COURSE rankings??

It's a clubhouse...enough said.

Having said that however, I think some of the great facilities have felt great to me PARTLY because of the manner in which the clubhouse DID relate to the course.  This can really be said for all good site/building relationships and the understanding of landscape character, but surprisingly, few people really get it.  Each designer feels its their chance to make a mark!  This rarely works.

Normally this is best found in the clubhouse setting, the use and relationship of scale and proportion between the building and the site, the detail used, materials, color, texture, space modulation, transition of the building to ground and simplicity of design.  More often than you might expect, circulation/way finding becomes key and this translates into a comfort level for many...though you guys may not notice it.  The actual architecture is a whole other matter, but if too overpowering, it can sure sway the experience in a negative manner.  Much of the unltimate success in question I believe falls on the designer of the the clubhouse complex and their understanding of the beast/industry and what the golf architect and the owner are trying to accomplish.

The sooner these individuals meet and have an understanding the better the relationship SHOULD be.  I say "should" because it is also largely dependent on the experience of the site designer and their "real" knowledge of the industry and the nature of golfers.  You just can't plug any landscape architect into this equation and expect to get a good product.  I think it is essential for the golf architect to relate his/her thoughts on the overall atmosphere desired based on the golf course design and the character of the site.

It has been my experience that more often than not the clubhouse and the clubhouse site component are designed independent of eachother and this usually leads to the lack of cohesion and an immediate recognition by most that something isn't right with this picture!  I think Tom and Brad are right about smaller operations , but isn't this sort of inherent and what we would expect in a small intimate setting.

I find it interesting that when talking to many golf architects they express little interest about the clubhouse, and many also don't care where it will go, yet only a small recognition of this necessary evil often leads to a better experience for all.

At a private club in Rochester NY where we consult I was asked to meet with the building architect and club officials to discuss the whole Pro Shop "connect or not to connect" issue prior to rebuilding the whole clubhouse.  Fortunately the building architect was persuasive and together we managed to break the pro shop free as a separate structure.  The members love it and it works for many good reasons.

[Mark_Fine]

Tom,
How would you rate the clubhouse at Pacific Dunes?  How about Pinehurst #2?  Do they impact the quality of those two designs?  
Mark

[Tom_Doak]

Mark:  I don't think the clubhouse makes much difference in the rankings, and the tempo shop at Pacific Dunes is the perfect example of that.  I actually like it ... just a patio to sit down and have a beer and a sandwich after the round ... but for sure no one is giving the course any points for that, and the course is still doing OK in the rankings!

I can't think of a much better set-up than the course I belong to.  The pro shop at Crystal Downs is about 30 steps from the first tee, and it's pretty much ON the tenth tee, though the eighteenth green is a bit of a hike.  The clubhouse is about 100 yards up the hill from the pro shop [the other side of the parking lot], overlooking the 18th and Lake Michigan.

It's almost impossible to build a large clubhouse that close to the golf, because the service entrance would be close to some hole you don't want to see it from ... so architects set their clubhouses back away from the course to hide those features.  But the pro shop as a separate entity can be right in the middle of things, because the only service involved is bringing in shirts and equipment.  The pro shop at Somerset Hills was another great example I saw this past summer.  It's about ten steps from the first tee, and maybe fifteen steps from the tenth.

[Dave Bourgeois]

Tom,

I agree that a separate Proshop close to the course is nice.

That description is similar to my parents club, Pinehaven in Albany.  The Pro shop is 15 steps from one and 25 from 10.

BTW also liked the practice area/Snack Bar @ Beechtree

[John Kavanaugh]

I love the clubhouse at Briarwood...It is a perfect example of what modern architecture use to be...The furniture was ultracool retro.  The pool house may be the most interesting structure I saw all year....I'd have to see how it functions to say if I like it or not.

[Andrew Summerell]

I like more of an old world feel to a clubhouse, so some of the more modern ones leave me a bit cold, although it doesn't greatly bother me.

What annoys me about clubhouses is when they insist on building them on the highest point of the property, whether it is best for the course or not, then running some monster hole all the way up the hill.

[Bill Gayne]

Shinnecock is the best that I've seen. Architecturally it fits perfect with the Hamptons. Perched on top of the hill overlooking the ninth and eight-teenth greens. Tees one and ten to the sides. Lots of glass on the back to look out towards the course. Wrap around porches. One of the best locker rooms with the white wash wicker pattern lockers.

[Adam_F_Collins]

The two best courses on my limited resume also possess my two favorite clubhouses, The Country Club (Brookline) and St. George's (Toronto).

I LOVED the clubhouse at St. George's - and it had a separate little building as a proshop near the first tee.

To me, I think that the entire place should be thought of a one thing - and that the clubhouse should reflect the character of the course and vise versa. This is why I get so bummed when developments miss the boat on this.

If at all possible, I'd have the architect for the course consult with the architect for the clubhouse - talk about character, funtionality, movement and use of space, sightlines, etc. - just to try to enhance a sense of continuity.

I like to see a clubhouse that actuall ENHANCES the landscape. So that coming up 9 or 18 (if the to nines loop) you are happy to see the clubhouse in the picture, beyond the green. I don't want it to be some clashing monstrosity.

I don't think it's a question of size, either. The Homestead has an enormous hotel, which is goregeous. But there are far too many hulking, characterless monstrosities out there, which have little to do with the course, or the character, and a lot to do with massive amounts of rentable space.

An example of a wipe-out in my opinion is Angus Glen in Markham Ontario. The original clubhouse was quite unique and interesting. But the massive 'barn-like' add-on really ruined the appeal.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I think my favorite clubhouse that relates the best to the course is Royal North Devon (Westward Ho!).  The course is one of the best examples of golf as it was played yet is challenging and fun today.  The clubhouse reaks of history, congeniality and an abience all its own.  The locker room looks as though Horace Hutchinson and J.H. Taylor just had been there.  There is eve a room with historical paraphenalia from featheries to modern clubs.  It is perfect.

[Craig_Rokke]

Do you think Phila CC's clubhouse integrates well with the course?

Stonewall's, I believe, integrates well. Architecturally, I think the Cascades' is pretty interesting, and also seems to work.

[Brian Marion]

In a lot of ways it depends on the intended function of the clubhouse. Is it there to serve the course, is it there to serve the members? If so and the building blends with the surroundings it is a plus. If it's there to help sell me a shirt, then it's a big minus. Sadly, I see more and more of those.

On the big clubhouse side, Philly Cricket Clubs clubhouse, pro shop and men's locker room stand out to me as classy and low key.

The best are the minimalist clubhouses or none at all. Spyglass comes to mind although it's really just a pro shop.

[Mark_F]

Clubhouses may not impact on the rankings, but they sure impact on the experience.

You only have to drive into the West Sussex car park, and as soon as you clap eyes on that gorgeous old brick building, you know you're in for a fine day.

Same here, at Commonwealth.  

Conversely, as soon as you catch a glimpse of The National's clubhouse...

[Wayne Freeman]

I agree with several here that the clubhouse certainly doesn't make the golf course, but it can definitely elevate the overall experience.  At many of the U.S. Open courses, the clubhouses are so cool to just hang out in-  they have great pictures (CC Brookline may be #1)  and you feel like you're walking with the golfing gods.  I also think when the clubhouses are higher on the property they totally enhance the round.   Other stellar sites are Newport, Shinny, Winged Foot, Interlachen, Olympic, Riviera.

[Michael Robin]

Tom Doak -

What do you think of the set-up at Stone Eagle? There, the clubhouse
is a half-mile down the hill and you will have a starter set-up at the 1st
tee, and the Airee overlooking the 19th hole, and that's it. Falls right
in line with their motto of "Pure Golf". I liked it. Thought it was different
and kept me focused on your golf course.