Bedford Springs Resort

« **on:** December 31, 2005, 09:27:01 AM »

Does anyone know what is going on with the renovation/construction of Bedford Springs Resort? I heard that they are trying to bring back the old Ross design. Who is the architect?

« **Reply #1 on:** December 31, 2005, 09:36:19 AM »

Kevin: I believe excellent restoration team of Ron Forse and Jim Nagle may be the architects involved. Im not familiar with the course itself. Is it in central Pa. Welcome to this fun website.
Mark

« **Reply #2 on:** December 31, 2005, 09:55:51 AM »

Interesting news, guys. I played there about 3 years ago. It truly is a course that is out in the middle of nowhere, just 5 minutes off the Bedford exit of the PA Turnpike.

The abandoned hotel there does have an interesting past, though.
I believe that as many as 3 or 4 presidents stayed there, with the springs being sort of a recooperative drawing card.. The hulking
structure really does cast sort of an ominous presence as you play several of the golf holes there. The volcano hole, as its called,
is like hitting your tee shot to the roof of a 4 or 5 story building that's
located 200 yards away.

I remember seeing it listed a couple years ago in travel/golf mag as a "hidden Ross gem", or something along those lines.

As far as the course goes: cheap, quirky, and very fun. I'd recommend it, especially if you are not a stickler for pristine maintenance.

« **Reply #3 on:** December 31, 2005, 04:00:09 PM »

There's alot of renovations going on at old hotel with scheduled 2007 opening.
The first link talks of golf course renovations but has little detail.
www.memberbbb.com/springs.html
The second links talks about planned hotel work
www.corsicanadailysun.com/travel/cnhinstravel_story_276103354.html
I've played it a few times and remember "The Volcano" also. I seem to remember par 74 with six par 5s.

Happy New Year to all!!
Dave

« **Reply #4 on:** December 31, 2005, 04:31:31 PM »

Dave-

You are right, I believe, about the 6 par 5's. Also, how about that short par 3 over a deep chasm, perhaps # 15 or 16?

The course is a wild ride, with a lot of potential. I'm glad to see they are working on the property.

Craig

PS-Are you from Chesco?

« **Reply #5 on:** December 31, 2005, 05:34:45 PM »

Ron Forse and Jim Nagle are leading the effort at Bedford Springs. They've been calling Tom Paul and I daily to get over there and see something they consider very special. That's good enough for me. I want to see it and them badly. I think we make make a triangle and visit the Homestead, Forse Design and Bedford Springs and CC Harrisburg sometime soon. Too bad I started a real job! But one of these days soon. We'll report back what's happening at BSR. Happy New Year!
Wayne

« **Reply #6 on:** December 31, 2005, 05:52:39 PM »

Wayne,

Make it a diamond and drive up 220 to the White Course.

« **Reply #7 on:** December 31, 2005, 09:50:40 PM »

Kyle,

My time is not my own these days, sad to say. I'll save PSU courses for a time when you can meet me. Happy New Year!

« **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2006, 09:03:48 AM »

Ron Forse wrote me and attached a photograph many will find of interest. I'm having trouble posting the photograph. It is in a jpg.htm format and doesn't want to be copied. If anyone knows how to reformat to jpg, please let me know. The photo is fascinating. Here's the text message in the meantime:

"Wayne,

Here is the photo from the Bedford Springs resort that we promised. It is of Tillinghast's "Tiny Tim", his second hole, to be the 14th a la 1923 Ross routing. Golf was started at the resort no later than 1894-1895. First design was by Spencer Oldham, a pro. Tillie was in around 1912 - 1914. The 1895 layout was 18 holes and when Ross was laying out 18 in 1922 or so, an old article mentioned that he found only 9 holes there. Therefore, sometime, apparently in the Tillinghast era, the course went from 18 to 9 holes. The attached photo is at a level far below Tiny Tim's elevated tees, but on the line of play. Behind the Tiny Tim green is an elevated 17th green that we are going to put back in. It was incorporated into Ross's routing and, based on our research, just may have been one of the original 1895 greens. In fact, the Tiny Tim was also an 1895 green that was played from the hill in the distance of the photo at about 170 yards. The mounds in the far fairway were there in 1895, as best we can tell. They are still there and will be part of the proposed 16th. The mounds around Tiny Tim have been greatly reduced in size, probably 2/3 cut off, but the sand areas seem to be kept. This photo is the best one that we have revealing the original character of the golf course features. This photo is superb in its historicity as well as its artistry - the contrast of lights and darks is masterful. It had to be taken by a real pro.

Ron Forse"

« **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2006, 09:30:11 AM »

It seems that Tillinghast used the term "Alps" and alpinization interchangeably. Looking at the drawing on pg 149 of "Gleanings From the Wayside" of a hole at Bedford Springs Resort (Ross redesigned Tillinghast's work in the early 1920s). The feature on the left of the green were small mounds according to Ron Forse who has studied the course and history carefully. These small mounds were put in by Tillinghast in 1912 in accordance with his practices at the time. Yet, clearly in the drawing he refers to them as "Alps." Perhaps Tillinghast was referring to the small mounds in the bunker fronting the 10th at Merion in the same way and thus creating some confusion.

I hope the authors don't mind that I reproduce the drawing here for educational purposes:

« **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2006, 10:11:20 AM »

Thanks for the pictures, Wayne. I did not know the course's history stretched back even further, with Tillinghast having been involved.

Not that it happened at all between Ross and Tillinghast, but
I wonder if architectural "revisionists" ever came in and
removed features associated with their predecessor, just for a pissing-match sake of stamping a particular property as "theirs".

« **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2006, 10:16:00 AM »

To anyone who heads there: please let me know when you're going. I'd love to meet up with folks there. I missed out when Craig visited a few years ago, but I'd do my best to make the time available.

« **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2006, 10:20:26 AM »

July or August might be fun, George, if the course
isn't too torn up. I'd like to head back.

« **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2006, 10:30:21 AM »

It's a date!

Maybe we could coax someone from Ron's firm into meeting a bunch of us there for a little educational day.

« **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2006, 10:33:37 AM »

My wife was born there. I played the course sometime in the mid/late 70's with her aunt. I would like to give it a go again.

George,

I can't recall whether it was "subtle" or not.

« **Reply #15 on:** January 04, 2006, 10:45:23 AM »

My parents stayed at Bedford Springs several times and played the golf course as well. Though they certainly weren't GCA aficionados, they really loved the golf course and were saddened when it closed. This is great news that the hotel and course are reopening. My Dad's gone now, but I hope to take my Mom there for old time's sake. If there's a Volcano hole there plus the other features discussed above it should be a real treat when reopened.

Happy New Year,

« **Reply #16 on:** January 04, 2006, 12:38:33 PM »

Doug,

I heard from John Yerger that the volcano hole their is spectacular as are a number of other holes. John has a contact with a very old but still coherent gentlemen that remembers a lot about the course and will put him in touch with Ron Forse.

Craig and George,

I'll take a trip out sometime when the weather warms. Let's try and do it when Ron and or Jim Nagle can meet us. July or August suits me...as of now.

« **Reply #17 on:** January 04, 2006, 01:04:03 PM »

I'm up for a road trip. I've wanted to get out and play it for a number of years now and to know that it's being "Restored" sounds even better.

« **Reply #18 on:** January 04, 2006, 01:16:26 PM »

Perusing the website has piqued my interest as well.

Coincidentally, this thread is the direct cause of my New Year's kiss this past year.

The girl was from Bedford and I was able to strike up conversation about the doings at the resort.

Kudos.

« **Reply #19 on:** January 04, 2006, 01:30:24 PM »

Kyle-
That's the first time I've heard of GCA.com facilitating romance!! Usually I get "are you on the golf site AGAIN?"
Way to ring in the New Year properly!

HUGE win last night. Congrats! Gotta love Joe's retort to Mike Terico about retirement. The moment would be perfect for Joe, but I think we'll see him pacing the sidelines again next fall.

I have to live vicariously through PSU, having gone to a little Div III school out in south central PA's Civil War battlefields.

Craig

« **Reply #20 on:** January 04, 2006, 01:59:20 PM »

Craig,

You went to Gettysburg? Great school and my fourth home (I used to work for the Park Service giving tours on a HS Internship program they had).

The best complaint I got from being on here is: "You're still on that golf site? And you're not even talking about golf, you're talking about Genesis guitarists."

« **Reply #21 on:** January 04, 2006, 02:05:38 PM »

Kyle-

Yes, Gettysburg. (The observation tower is gone now.)

Don't tell me you drifted so far OT that you were debating
pre and post Gabriel/Hackett Genesis, and the the subsequent fall-out in 1970's golf architecture!

« **Reply #22 on:** January 04, 2006, 02:12:34 PM »

Go dig up the Hunter S. Thompson thread, it's all there.

Tommy Nacc and I talk at length about this. VERY enjoyable.

I've got some ghost stories to share with you.

Back on thread: What exactly is a "Volcano" hole?

« **Reply #23 on:** January 04, 2006, 02:25:25 PM »

I'm not sure what constitutes the difference between "volcano", and merely uphill holes.
My recollection is that this greensite had more of an erupted-out-of-the-ground look to it. As I mentioned earlier, at least 4, perhaps 5 stories worth. And not particularly man-made looking, either. It did not look like the stereotypical volcano, but it is at least reminiscent of one. You have to see it, for sure.

Putting the tee shot on the green with a 5 wood from about 215 was easily the shot I was most pleased with that day, although I believe that downhill put back towards the fairway was not easy.

We tried to get up there after some heavy rains last summer, but the course was closed due to quite a few of the fairways being badly flooded.

« **Reply #24 on:** January 04, 2006, 03:39:05 PM »

Kyle,

For examples of Ross volcano holes, look at photos of the 6th at Roaring Gap and the 4th at Wilmington Municipal contained in the GCA.com "Courses by Country" descriptions of each course.

Happy New Year,

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