If you won't admit that ANGC is the greatest course in the USA you are a liar..

[John Kavanaugh]

I know I'm completely wasted but I was watching the replay of he 92 Masters and had an epiphany...You guys are a bunch of idiots..it is the greatest course in our fine country....come on you intellectuals..tell me  why it's not the best there is...

[Tom_Doak]

For starters, because it's not the same course it was in 1992.

[John Kavanaugh]

For starters, because it's not the same course it was in 1992.

Sorry, my good friend...but it still beats anything you ever built, changes or no...You'd be lucky to build a single green as good.

[Robert Thompson]

Glad to see the real John didn't take too long to come out of his shell.

You can make your point and still show others, like Mr. Doak, a degree of respect.

Why isn't Augusta the best, John? I've got two words for you: Pine Valley.

[Jim Thompson]

How 'bout because it is a one dimensional, ultra linear, non-strategic, execution based, over dressed, over greened, pimped out, tree riddle, over grown pine grove which, now serves to remind us that great greens cannot carry the full burden of a golf course!

JT

P.S. Merry Christmas Hootie I'll take it all back for my membership.  

[Paul Payne]

OK, I've had my wine for the evening so I'll take a shot at this.

I don't know about how the rest of you guys feel but I've had opinions about Augusta for a while now, especially since they have aggressively lengthened the course. I've walked the course a number of times.

The green complexes are great, in fact during the masters I always amazed at the speed of the greens. Combined with the roll and slope they seem almost impossible to mere mortals.

The fairways however can often be a downright snooze. Particularly since the changes, they are simply long and tight. But really most of the game has become the approach shot in. I don't think you can ignore the first shot so flagrantly.

I have never had the opportunity to play the course so I could be made a fool off the tee, but I have played many courses (Sand Hills and Merion are two) which I think are far more exciting from the tee.

Well... I've blasphemed now, take your shots.

[Jim Thompson]

Take away the history and its a real tossup of whether it makes the top 10 in the US.  In ten more years it will be the  Michie Stadium of golf!

JT

[Paul Payne]

WOW... THOMPSON, I guess I pulled my punches!!!

[Jim Thompson]

The Augusta Syndrome is responsible for 70% of the demise of the current game and industry and I'm being kind at 70%.

[John Kavanaugh]

I mean, can you even imagine thinking about playing the great amen corner and then getting to play the great 9th and 10th before getting there.....nothing compares..

[Ken_Cotner]

How 'bout because it is a one dimensional, ultra linear, non-strategic, execution based, over dressed, over greened, pimped out, tree riddle, over grown pine grove which, now serves to remind us that great greens cannot carry the full burden of a golf course!

JT

P.S. Merry Christmas Hootie I'll take it all back for my membership.  

 
Post of the year...and I don't even know if I agree with it!  Which reminds me, there is a beautiful ANGC story in the Lifestyle (or whatever they call the last section) section of the Wall Street Journal today.

Ken

[John Kavanaugh]

OK, I've had my wine for the evening so I'll take a shot at this.

I don't know about how the rest of you guys feel but I've had opinions about Augusta for a while now, especially since they have aggressively lengthened the course. I've walked the course a number of times.

The green complexes are great, in fact during the masters I always amazed at the speed of the greens. Combined with the roll and slope they seem almost impossible to mere mortals.

The fairways however can often be a downright snooze. Particularly since the changes, they are simply long and tight. But really most of the game has become the approach shot in. I don't think you can ignore the first shot so flagrantly.

I have never had the opportunity to play the course so I could be made a fool off the tee, but I have played many courses (Sand Hills and Merion are two) which I think are far more exciting from the tee.

Well... I've blasphemed now, take your shots.

You're right, I'm downright snoozing thinking about teeing off on the 1st, 3rd, 6th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th, 15th, 16th and 18th...somebody get me a red bull...

[Paul Payne]

Nice defense JK, but I'll take a burger at the turn at SH grilled up by cowboy Bob anyday.

[John Kavanaugh]

The Augusta Syndrome is responsible for 70% of the demise of the current game and industry and I'm being kind at 70%.

This is another lie spewed out by this board...nobody and I mean nobody on any greens commitee in the country thinks they can be as good as ANGC during tournament week....People who run golf courses are smarter than people who hang out on the internet way over 70% of the time....I know people who run golf courses and none of them think about Augusta when setting their budgets.  It would be like me trying to be John Holmes in my wifes bed...it makes no sense.  Augusta is not the reason your course is crap and your budget overruns...It is much closer to home than you think..

[John Kavanaugh]

Nice defense JK, but I'll take a burger at the turn at SH grilled up by cowboy Bob anyday.

I won't ever know because Sand Hills is not good enough to test the best players of the game....It is a game you know, I mean who would want to see a chess match on a field of 32 squares..

[Paul Payne]

JK....... back away from the scotch..... it's just a chat board.

My course likes Augusta, they'd be friends if they met.

[Joe Hancock]

The Augusta Syndrome is responsible for 70% of the demise of the current game and industry and I'm being kind at 70%.

  Augusta is not the reason your course is crap and your budget overruns...It is much closer to home than you think..

John,

Are you suggesting we can't blame others any more for our bad decisions?

Joe

[Dan King]

John Kavanaugh writes:
I know I'm completely wasted but I was watching the replay of he 92 Masters and had an epiphany...You guys are a bunch of idiots..it is the greatest course in our fine country....come on you intellectuals..tell me  why it's not the best there is...

Obviously a man who has never played Delavega. Perhaps Augusta does okay compared to all those other courses on that side of the Mississippi, but come on, we in California are still part of the U.S. of A.

I mean, can you even imagine thinking about playing the great amen corner and then getting to play the great 9th and 10th before getting there....it's simply orgasmic..nothing compares..

You better get your tookus out here to California and play Delavega's stretch from No. 6 to No. 10 before you say that. I've already christened it Shoot the Wad Corner.

Dan King

So, it's me again, huh, Lord? Why don't you just come down here and we'll play. And bring that kid of yours. I'll play your best ball.
 --Tommy Bolt (after missing a putt)

[John Kavanaugh]

Now that my drunk is wearing off I'm wondering if the course is all that much changed from 92...I don't buy that a few yards and a few trees really make a difference in 13 years....I didn't even get to see who won in 92 after typing this and tying the pink sash of my wifes robe into a windsor knot around my neck I didn't see the finish of the telecast.  I can't believe Ian Baker Finch was doing so well...but hell, I know he didn't win.   So, would it be the best course in the country if it still stood as it did in 92....I imagine it would...what the hell does a few yards and a tree or two really make anyway.   My God, Pine Valley has suffered much more in the last 20 years or so and you guys (except redanman) continue to give it a pass..

[Dan King]

John Kavanaugh writes:
I don't buy that a few yards and a few trees really make a difference in 13 years

Delaveaga has remained mostly unchanged since 1992. They did some work on the back nine's drainage (I lost a shoe back there once) but still Shoot the Wad Corner is unchanged since the first day I played there. The par-5 sixth hole, a dogleg right with baranca all down the right and OB road left gets reversed for the par-5 10th hole. And all the balls you lose on the front nine you can buy back from the ball gnomes on the back nine for three for a buck.

John Kavanaugh responds to my brilliant retort:
...

Dan King

Liar I have sailed the seas
Liar from Mars to Mercury
Liar I have drunk the wine
Liar time after time
Liar you're lying to me
Liar you're lying to me
Father please forgive me
You know you'll never leave me
Please will you direct me in the right way
Liar liar liar liar
Liar that's what they keep calling me
Liar liar liar
 --Freddie Mercury

[Eric_Dorsey]

I'll never see ANGC, but I'd rather play Cypress Point, Seminole, or Pine Valley ANY day over AGNC.   no question, it just doesn't do anything for me.  

And throw Sand Hills into that mix too.

I get so sick of guys ranting on they've played Augusta 42 times and stayed in the Butler Cabin.  shit, keep it to yourself.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

John You are riding a great train right now and i would not want to bring you down. ANGC is maybe the best tv match play back nine in the world. I do not think you will say that after walking it or playing it in its current form.

[cary lichtenstein]

Actually, it is without a doubt, the best tournament we have year in year out.

Long live JakaB, sober or drunk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ryan Crago]

ok ok... all lengthening aside, how much of its - dare i say 'former' - splendor as a strategic test would be revived by simply cutting the ROUGH down to fairway height again??

sure scores would probably be lower by a few shots (which i suppose is how we got in this mess in the first place), but we'd certainly see more risk taken off the tee, and from not so friendly positions in the fairways!

[Andrew Summerell]

If ANGC is the best course in America, then America doesn't deserve to have a course in the world's top 20.

If the Masters was at San Francisco CC, it would be in the top 10 in the world & Augusta wouldn't even make the top 30.