[Jim Dawson]

We have a group of 8 going to Scotland in June of 2007. This will be the 1st(probably only) trip that we are going to take over the pond.
Any sugestions?
Thanks,
JD

[David_Tepper]

Jim -

You don't say how long you are planning to be there. Obviously, that would shape whatever advice you get here.

Some major things to think about:

1) Getting a copy of "Golf in Scotland, A Travel Planning Guide" by Allan McAllister Ferguson.
2) How many "big-name" courses do you want to play vs. how many "local" courses? (I HIGHLY recommend playing some of each.)
3) Do you want to play some courses more than once? (Something I also highly recommend.)
4) Do you want to make the arrangements (teetimes, B&B bookings, car/van rentals, etc.) yourself or do you want to work with a travel firm to arrange every think for you?

Scotland has about 5 golf regions (Ayrshire Coast, East Lothian, Fife, Northeast/Grampian & the Highlands). Each region has at least 2 big-name courses and 3 or 4 quality local courses.  I would recommend spending at least 4 days in any region you visit (i.e. if you are going for 8 days, do not visit more than 2 regions). Don't waste a lot of your time driving around, checking in and out of hotels/B&B's and packing/unpacking your bags. Try to maxmize the amount of time you will be spending on the golf courses!!!

DT          

[Tom Dunne]

Whatever you decide, take a copy of James Finegan's "Blasted Heaths and Blessed Greens" with you, and read his entries before and after your rounds.

Also, if you wind up driving yourself, I recommend getting directions from www.theaa.com. Any site that could get me from Hampstead to Walton Heath (100+ instructions), is pretty worthy.

[Jim Dawson]

Below is our tentative itenary. Cost is $4900 per person.
Does anybody have any input as to things we are missing or courses we should play.
Day 1 (dates to be determined, we recommend that this is a Saturday):  Arrive Glasgow, travel to Turnberry.  Play the Ailsa Course.  Overnight Turnberry Hotel, non-ocean view twin rooms.
 
Day 2:  Travel to Prestwick.  Play Prestwick.   Overnight Golf View Hotel, twin rooms.
Note--fantastic, tradtional Scottish guesthouse overlooking the historic links at Prestwick and around the corner from some great little pubs!
 
Day 3:  Play Royal Troon.  Travel to Gullane.  Overnight The Golf Inn, SINGLE rooms.
Note--just around the corner from Muirfield, this delightful little golf hotel has great rates for single rooms so you can catch a break from the snoring!  They also have the best restaurant in town and a terrific little pub as well.
 
Day 4:  Play Muirfield (2007) or Luffness New (2006).   In the afternoon, play North Berwick.  Overnight The Golf Inn.
 
Day 5:  Travel to St. Andrews.  Play Kingsbarns.  Overnight Rusacks Hotel (2006) or The Dunvegan Hotel (2007).
Note--the rooms at Rusacks would look out on the 17th green (the Road Hole!)
 
Day 6:  Play the Old Course (see note below) and the New Course.  Overnight Rusacks Hotel or The Dunvegan Hotel.
 
Day 7:  Play Carnoustie.  Overnight Rusacks Hotel or The Dunvegan Hotel.
 
Day 8:  Depart from Scotland.
 
The prices for this trip, guaranteed in US Dollars whether you go in 2006 or 2007, are $6,150.00 per person (2006), or $4,905.00 per person (2007), including the following:
--7 nights' accommodations, 2 in SINGLE occupancy, 5 in twin occupancy
--Breakfast each morning
--9 rounds of golf
--All local taxes
--Lunch at Royal Troon (plus a "bonus round" on the club's Portland Course if you want to play it, but we would suggest you forgoe)
--Dinner one night at Rusacks if you go in 2006 (dinner not included though on the August 4 Old Course date quoted below)
--All fees associated with currency exchange (you would pay an extra 5% or so if you pay an amount denominated in Pounds, due to inflated exchange rates used by banks and credit card companies, and the 2 or 3% fees they tack on on top of that)
--Complimentary copies of Hidden Links Golf Guides to Scotland and Ireland on DVD, hosted by Renton Laidlaw as seen on The Golf Channel, for each person traveling (normally $34.90 per set per person)
--Comprehensive, custom tour information packet with everything you need for your tour, including personal restaurant/pub/sightseeing recommendations
--Transportation by Hidden Links deluxe "Members Lounge/Card Room (TM)" motorcoach and driver, with leather captains' chairs, tables, etc. (see photo attached), based on 8 traveling

Thanks for any help,
JD

[ForkaB]

Jim

David T's precis is very good.  There is also a LOT of discussion of this issue in the archives--if you can find them!  Do some digging around and get back to the forum with some more specific questions, and I'm sure there will be people who can help you, maybe even including me.

PS--2007?  When I did my first trip to Scotland in April 1978, I started my serious planning in February of that year.  Those were the days........

PS--this was written before your post of 4 minutes ago.  I'll check that and amend, as appropriate.

[Mike Benham]

At that time of the year, you will have time for 36-holes per day, if that is your gig.

At Troon, you might be required to play both courses as part of the guest package.

Your Prestwick round will start no sooner than 11:00 AM - and please try the Kummel ...

Gullane #1 should be an option for Day 4 ...

These package tours are done pretty well, if with a reputable firm.  Your cost is higher than if you planned yourself but they guarantee access to these courses.

Mike

[Tom Huckaby]

Jim - David T's advice is impeccable, as is Rich Goodale's and now Mike Benham's.  And Rich, hell in 1978 you were also young and limber, and gas cost $.50 per gallon.  Time has marched on.  It is somewhat sad, but the reality is Jim is not planning too far in advance... not if he wants to get a group of 8 on that list of courses anyway.

Jim that looks to be an itinerary prepared by a golf travel agency, and seems rock-solid to me.  All of this has been discussed countless times before on here - Rich is right, if you can find it in the archives that's the way to go.  But to sum some of it up, well... many here will tell you to seek out more hidden gems, stay longer at one place, etc. and yes, that's great to do after you've knocked out the truly great courses, but only after such.  For a first and probably only trip, you can't go wrong with the itin they've set out for you.

My one suggestion would be unless you are very tired, DO play Troon Portland - I found it to be very fun and Mike's right, you're paying for it anyway.  Depending on how they order that - you might be set for Portland in AM, Championship course in PM or vice versa - a good idea might be to play foursomes or some odd format on Portland.  I wouldn't call it great or anything, but it is fun and to me beat sitting around in the bar.  But then again, that sounds pretty good also, especially if you can talk your way into the Members' Bar as my group did....

Another suggestion is this:  get them to make Muirfield happen for you, the whole day, 36 holes + lunch.  It is one of the great experiences in golf that simply must be done.  Oh you don't want to miss N. Berwick either... that is fun fun fun... but if they are trying to get Muirfield, seems to me making the whole day of it is a must.

In fact you very easily could play N. Berwick the next day in the am, travel to St. Andrews after that.  Kingsbarns is excellent and needs to be played also, but could be sacrificed if necessary to get the whole day at Muirfield.  You also could do a late round at Kingsbarns after travel there - there will be plenty of light in the day - but that depends on your golf addiction level and rest might be preferred.

In any case, I've done trips like this several times with a fantastic golf travel group who can certainly make all dreams come true... let me know if you want contact info.

TH

[ForkaB]

Jim

What you've got is the classic "If it's Day 4 it must be Muirfield (or Luffness) package."  It's overpriced and overhyped, but it does the business--if you are only going around once in life and this is it!  If that's it, just lie back and enjoy it.  You will!  If that's not it, explore some options, per David's template.  People on this site can help you.  Regardless, you can't go wrong golfing in Scotland!

[Tom Huckaby]

Jim

What you've got is the classic "If it's Day 4 it must be Muirfield (or Luffness) package."  It's overpriced and overhyped, but it does the business--if you are only going around once in life and this is it!  If that's it, just lie back and enjoy it.  You will!  If that's not it, explore some options, per David's template.  People on this site can help you.  Regardless, you can't go wrong golfing in Scotland!

Well said.  I know I had an absolute blast doing a trip quite like this with my college buddies.  But yes, this is most appropriate for a first and/or only trip over, with limited time available.  If exploration is a goal and you have more time, the options are endless and like Rich says, you really can't go wrong.

[Jay Flemma]

My faves are Prestwick, Muirfield, St. Andrews, Cruden bay, North Berwick...I know that some like Ladybank and Gullane No 1. as well.  Have a great trip and keep us updated.

[Jason Topp]

My comments

Below is our tentative itenary. Cost is $4900 per person.
Does anybody have any input as to things we are missing or courses we should play.
Day 1 (dates to be determined, we recommend that this is a Saturday):  Arrive Glasgow, travel to Turnberry.  Play the Ailsa Course.  Overnight Turnberry Hotel, non-ocean view twin rooms.  
 
Day 2:  Travel to Prestwick.  Play Prestwick.   Overnight Golf View Hotel, twin rooms.
Note--fantastic, tradtional Scottish guesthouse overlooking the historic links at Prestwick and around the corner from some great little pubs!
 
Day 3:  Play Royal Troon.  Travel to Gullane.  Overnight The Golf Inn, SINGLE rooms.
Note--just around the corner from Muirfield, this delightful little golf hotel has great rates for single rooms so you can catch a break from the snoring!  They also have the best restaurant in town and a terrific little pub as well.
 
Day 4:  Play Muirfield (2007) or Luffness New (2006).   In the afternoon, play North Berwick.  Overnight The Golf Inn.
 
Day 5:  Travel to St. Andrews.  Play Kingsbarns.  Overnight Rusacks Hotel (2006) or The Dunvegan Hotel (2007).
Note--the rooms at Rusacks would look out on the 17th green (the Road Hole!)
 
Day 6:  Play the Old Course (see note below) and the New Course.  Overnight Rusacks Hotel or The Dunvegan Hotel.
 
Day 7:  Play Carnoustie.  Overnight Rusacks Hotel or The Dunvegan Hotel.
 
Day 8:  Depart from Scotland.
 
The prices for this trip, guaranteed in US Dollars whether you go in 2006 or 2007, are $6,150.00 per person (2006), or $4,905.00 per person (2007), including the following:
--7 nights' accommodations, 2 in SINGLE occupancy, 5 in twin occupancy
--Breakfast each morning
--9 rounds of golf
--All local taxes
--Lunch at Royal Troon (plus a "bonus round" on the club's Portland Course if you want to play it, but we would suggest you forgoe)
--Dinner one night at Rusacks if you go in 2006 (dinner not included though on the August 4 Old Course date quoted below)
--All fees associated with currency exchange (you would pay an extra 5% or so if you pay an amount denominated in Pounds, due to inflated exchange rates used by banks and credit card companies, and the 2 or 3% fees they tack on on top of that)
--Complimentary copies of Hidden Links Golf Guides to Scotland and Ireland on DVD, hosted by Renton Laidlaw as seen on The Golf Channel, for each person traveling (normally $34.90 per set per person)
--Comprehensive, custom tour information packet with everything you need for your tour, including personal restaurant/pub/sightseeing recommendations
--Transportation by Hidden Links deluxe "Members Lounge/Card Room (TM)" motorcoach and driver, with leather captains' chairs, tables, etc. (see photo attached), based on 8 traveling

Thanks for any help,
JD

Looks like a great trip.  I particularly like the fact you are staying in just 2 places.  That will work well.

Comments:  See if you can fit Western Gailes on one of your West coast days.  It is simply a magical place and, assuming it is summer, you will have plenty of time.  We played it on our arrival day and it was perfect way to start out the trip in the evening.

You can easily combine Troon and Prestwick into the same day.  They are right next to each other.  That would free up a day for Western Gailes or an extra day to try and get on TOC.

Make sure you know whether you have a guaranteed tee time or simply a chance in the ballot for TOC.  Both times I have gone, I felt misled on this point.  If it is a ballot, be prepared for a bit of stress and be prepared to show up really early one day to wait in line for people who want to play there in case the ballot does not go through.  I've now been on the ballot 10 times without ever succeeding.

I don't know about the price  Others can comment.  

[ForkaB]

Very good point by Jason regarding TOC.  For the amount of money you are paying, you should be GUARANTEED a tee time on the Old Course.  If not, find another operator.

[Tom Huckaby]

One more thing - GREAT call getting the driver.  That makes each ride a rolling cocktail party (if you are so inclined) and removes all alcohol-related post-golf responsibilities (if that's what you have in mind, which if you don't, you should).  

Having such jacks up the price quite a bit - but my experience was I have rarely paid for something more worth its weight in gold.  NOT having to drive around Scotland is a very good thing.

And yes, the lads are correct about TOC.  Any good agency can get you guaranteed times.  As I read it, I think you will have such - but damn well make sure.  And again, let me know if you want to use the company I did.


TH

[Wayne Freeman]

This is a super trip for a first or potentially only exposure to Scotland.  I would be mostly concerned about a guaranteed time at Muirfield since that's the toughest ticket there. Yes it would be awesome to be there for the entire day, but try to make sure that you will get at least the one 18 in- not the end of the world if you can't play it, but playing the Open venues is fantastic.  Guillane #1 which is right there is definitely worth playing. I also agree that you want to make sure you have a definite time at the Old Course. Although Troon is important because of it's historic significance, IMHO it is the least interesting course listed. I would still want to play it, but cutting out the other course there is no big deal.
 Have a great time-  I'm looking forward to our group trip to Ireland this summer.

[Jim Franklin]

I would highly suggest eating at the Pizza Hut on the way to Prestwick and skipping the Scottish lunch.

The Dunvegan is great; they serve very cold imports: BUD!

You will love Scotland.

[Tom Huckaby]

Oh no, here we go again.  

Sean - remember this is a first and only trip.  You'd have him forsake Muirfield?  Foresake Troon?  Forsake Carnoustie?  These are all Open courses which make dreams come true.  As sound as your advise might be sanity-wise and relaxation-wise, well... he's says he may never get back.  But to each his own.  Yes it is a holiday, but it's also his one chance to play these courses.

As for Old and New in the same day, well... the way it works is you have to pay for both (same goes for Troon), and many people have a hard time leaving money on the table in favor of walking around.  But you make a good point there.  Just do remember there is a LOT of light in the day, and he'll have time for walking around and smelling the roses (or auld toon grey walls as the case may be) even if he plays the 36 he will have paid for.

BTW, it's a pipe-dream thinking he gets all 8 of them on the ballot in June.  You know this.

[Mike Benham]

Jim

What you've got is the classic "If it's Day 4 it must be Muirfield (or Luffness) package."  It's overpriced and overhyped, but it does the business--if you are only going around once in life and this is it!  If that's it, just lie back and enjoy it.  You will!  If that's not it, explore some options, per David's template.  People on this site can help you.  Regardless, you can't go wrong golfing in Scotland!

Rich is correct, in the overpriced / overhyped description.  Unfortunately, if you want to book a trip for 8 with a chauffered motor coach during a busy time of the golf season, it is the price to pay ... Enjoy

[Mike Benham]

The itinerary is far too ambitious for the likes of me.  However, here are a few suggestions.

I assume he and his 7 companions are going to Scotland to golf, not visit the castles ... with 18 hours of sunlight, the castles can wait till when I bring the wife during the winter ...

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean my man:

The trip will occur in 2007.  Read his first post.

And your suggestions remain good ones, but come on, Machrihanish and Machrie?  You do understand the meaning of the word "logistics", right?  Again, no one can doubt the quality of those courses or the great experiences that would be had there.  But the man seems to have 7-8 days total.  VERY tough to work those in in such a short time frame and couple it with anything else - travel time is too great, even if you do fly over on Loganair.

And for pure golf fun, well I'm with you, I prefer Western Gailes and Prestwick to any of those Open courses.  But those are the ones we see on TV, the ones on which we can most easily walk in the footsteps of our golf heroes.  

Like I've said many times, and Rich said in this thread, there really is no "wrong" way to do Scotland.  I just do feel one ought to play the well-known greats when he has the chance.  Oh, they might not make as great of an impression on the soul - especially for the more adventurous - but for most people, they will provide life-long memories...

And then the next Open played there, one can pooh-pooh the pros as they fail on the holes one just played.

 

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean:  ouch!

I guess it comes down to this:  most of us can take a "holiday" several times per year.

Most Americans get to Scotland only once, if they are lucky.

Thus it makes great sense to me to prioritize a Scotland golf trip differently from other holidays.  Just as one can't lie on a California or Hawaii beach in Scotland, one can't play links golf while in those places.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Sean, I am feeling old.  I am 43.  But of course I'm a mere pup compared to the ancient Mr. Goodale.  

And you are a wise vacationer.  Heck, I do a bit of that as well.  But to me a "golf trip" is different from a "holiday/vacation"... and if I'm going to Scotland, it's a golf trip.

Not that a vacation/holiday there would be anything but great... I just don't see that as the best purpose for a first/only time over, that's all.

TH

[Matt MacIver]

I too am planning a trip to Scotland in 2007.  Hoping for 10 days, 2/3rds golf & 1/3rd vacation...probably 4 golfers and 2-4 spouses.  So all this info is very helpful, but I have two questions:

1) We're going over May 2007 and was going to begin planning for it in Spring 2006.  Is that too late?  We'll want to guarantee ourselves times on TOC and other high-traffic courses....

2) I have access to a copy of Ferguson's planning book, but can anyone recommned books that give gca- type details of the courses.  

Of course I want to play them all, but I reluctantly agree that for the amount of time we'll be there we probably need to restrict our travelling to two location, and will probably try to get in 7 or so rounds.  For kicks, here's what I'm preliminarily thinking, at least on the days we play golf...have to work out whether this works re: travel time, flights, etc:

Golf Day 1: Kingsbarn & Crail
Golf Day 2: TOC
Golf Day 3: New Course (any maybe Jubilee)

Golf Day 4: No. Berwick & Gullane 1
Golf Day 5: Muirfield (36)

or

Golf Day 4: Troon (36)
Golf Day 5: 2 of 3: Turnberry / Preswick / Western Gailes

[Tom Huckaby]

Matt:

The one's that you need to start planning for NOW would be Muirfield and TOC.  With just four golfers, you likely won't need the help of a travel company - in fact you can book on-line at Muirfield - go to this site:

http://www.muirfield.org.uk/index.cfm?action=visitorTeeTimes

Nearly all of 2006 is already booked (there are some open times in December 2006).  They seem to be taking times through March 2007 right now - and there is some 2007 availability.  But monitor the site and do not delay, if you want to play Muirfield - which I would HIGHLY recommend.

Re TOC, there are many different ways to make that happen, but it's all rather strange.  They have a site as well:

http://www.standrews.org.uk/golf/index.html

Read through that and see what's what.  They're not taking 2007 times yet.  The rules and restrictions are also very weird - be careful.

You could also have a golf travel agency do this all for you...

In any case, no it's not too soon to plan.  Sad but true.

As for what to do, well your trip necessarily must be different from Jim's with non-golfing spouses along.  Only you know how far you can or should push things.  In any case, re your question on how to do days 4 and 5, I'd say let that turn on whether you can book Muirfield - if you can, do it - have the lunch, play foursomes, it is really fun.  If not, then your other choice involving Troon and those near it is great fun also.  You can't go wrong either way.

You just also damn well better have lots for the wives to do if you are gonna play all that golf.  But again, of course only you know how to handle that.  I'll just pray for you.

TH

[Matt MacIver]

Pray, indeed.  This started out as a "guys celebrating father-in-law's retirement trip" and quickly desolved from there.  But, as you can see and as you say, I'm "trying to get away" with as much as I can!  Wish me luck and thanks for the advice, instead of casually discussing it over Christmas dinner it will now take center stage.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Matt - I am busting up because I have SO been there.  For me once a trip with the whole family to visit some friends who were temporarily working in England devolved into a trip with just the guys that started and ended with visiting said friend, but in the middle had us travelling all the way the hell up to Scotland and all around there.  Oh yes, I know all about devolvement.

 

What you really need is not golf advice - I think you can handle that - but "what the hell the wives are gonna do" advice.  Hopefully Goodale or Bonnar will see this and chime in - they live there.  In past conversations I've been assured the wives' time can be fruitfully and fun-fully occupied, though you are a braver man than I to give this a try.  Of course I do fully understand that one does what one must to get to Scotland, though.

I'd love a tape of your Christmas dinner conversation...but then again, I could likely write the script.

 

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