Tom,
You wrote, "This appears to be attempt at a gotcha...you called me on the carpet, well then I'll call you on the carpet...the least you could do is to bring something specific, something of substance to the table instead of generalities...like you did not prove anything."
There was NO reason for you to take my comments that way. In my post, that you take as a Tit-for-tat, I wrote the following that you appearedc to have missed completely, "The problem I have is NOT one of disagreeing with your premise; to the contrary, I can see the logic in it..."
I think that statement also answers your conclusion that, "It does not appear that Phil read my essay." If I hadn't read it, then why would I "see the logic in it?"
As I said, my problem with your post that I commented on was and is one of consistency. You don't demand from yourself what you demand of others and when it is pointed out to you, you attack what is said rather than considering its possibility.
In this discussion, when making a pronouncement of fact you use phrases such as , "If you accept... A commonly accepted fact... It is only logical... considering golf architecture had drifted so far away from its roots, in both an aesthetic and golfing sense... To think that..." without offering the prerequisite proofs for these statements when asked.
Now, to try one last time for you to understand both what I said and why regarding Old Tom's relationship with and influence on Tilly, you stated this, ""Some might argue for Old Tom Morris [you claimed Old Tom was the most influencial figure in N.American golf]." I did NOT EVER claim that Old Tom was... I stated that "some might argue..." This is not a staement of semantics.
I believe that Tilly was the most influential figure in North American golf for a variety of reasons that I won't go into here. My statement was to show that regardless of the person, many times there are those who turned them into a path or gave encouragement or fired their spirit from behind the scenes. I believe that Old Tom did that for a number of people who turned out to have an influence on the game. That is all I said.
You wrote, "It was during his second trip to St. Andrews in 1898 that Tillinghast came back enamored with the idea to design golf courses. It was Old Tom's influence that brought this about." Then you asked, "How do you know Tilly came back from Scotland 'enamored' with the idea of designing a golf course?" You also wrote, "There is no evidence Old Tom influenced anyone regarding golf design...much less Tilly."
Before Tilly went to Scotland in 1896, he played golf with father and friends only. It was his father who taught him to play and was a fine player in his own right, as his numerous trophies attest. He met Old Tom during this trip and made only brief comments about it over the years, but one that really stands out is, "When golf first made its appearance in America in the early [18]90s, we pioneers in this country spoke almost in muted tones of reverence when the name of Old Tom Morris of St. Andrews, Scotland, was mentioned. To us he was nothing less than the patron saint of golf. As a matter of fact Old Tom was also regarded thus in the old country. Consequently, when I soon after came in contact with him, face to face in his wee shop, just off the home green in the City, Auld and Gray, I really felt that I was standing in the presence of the High Priest in the Holy of Holies. This was about 1896 and I had not been so long in the game. Here was a man, in his eighty’s, who for a generation had been held in veneration throughout golfdom."
Note the sense of awe and almost worshipful reverence with which Tilly writes of Old Tom. Note also how he admitted that at this time he, "had not been so long in the game..."
That this had an impact on him as a PERSON is undeniable, as he began to work hard on his game and began playing in matches of any and all import after this return.
When he went on his second trip in 1898, he spent a great deal of time with Old Tom off the course and at his home. Tom spoke to him about any and all things golf and about Young Tom in ways that he did with very few, even allowing Tilly to enjoy holding his son's championship belt.
Is it mere coincidence that among the first things that Tilly did when he returned from this trip was to build the rudimentary course in Frankford on the Old Wister Farm and begin teaching the locals how to play? Could Old Tom POSSIBLY have helped ignite a flame of passion for the game within Tilly that wasn't there before? Why then if I use a phrase such as, "If you accept... A commonly accepted fact... It is only logical..." in regard to this it is poor ly thought out and mere conjecture and yet when you use these about a subject such as A&C and present no actual proof within the framework of the staements, it is a reasonable deuction that one should not challenge?
That is what you are doing Tom and you should realize it. I personally believe that you and what you hypothecize would be better accepted if you did.
Finally, you asked, "Where can I learn more about Old Tom's influence...his thoughts and ideas? Can we find Old Tom's influence within Tilly's work or within Tilly's ideas and philospies?" Where did I EVER state that he did anything other than INSPIRE THE YOUNG MAN?
History is filled with those of genius who would have pursued a very different life course but for that one person who made a difference.
Tilly had two people who exerted influence on the course he would end up taking in life. His father Benjamin Collins Tillinghast and Old Tom Morris. By the way, most people don't know that Tilly kept an ongoing correspondence with Old Tom till shortly before he died. Unfortunately, these letters, along with the bulk of his correspondences, papers, drawings, etc... were lost in a fire when his daughter's barn burnt down.