[TEPaul]

In another thread S. Huffstutler mentioned on the subject of cost increase, among other things, the "stripping" of fairways.

Personally, I never liked that look, particularly on the older courses. I like that old-fashioned "up and back" look and I tried to get my course and our super to do it but he didn't seem to think it was good idea. I can't remember why now.

So, my question to the supers out there---Do you feel it's less expensive to forgo fairway "stripping" and go to the old fashioned "up and back" look? And if so would the savings be really minimal or do you think it'd be something that definitely deserves a look?

Last year they asked us to take a bit out of the budget and we got the savings in what I call "penal areas". But if changing our "stripped" fairways to something else saves something maybe I can convince them.

[Jim Thompson]

I think he was referring to the cost of having a "fresh" pattern.  Directional or cross cutting cost no more than two striping with light weight fairway mowers.  The problem comes when a club that has carts wants their super to maintain fairways with no cart tracks by mowing fairways excessively.  I doubt he's talking about pulling gangs by tractor.

Looks always cost more than condition.

Cheers!

JT

[TEPaul]

"Directional or cross cutting cost no more than two striping with light weight fairway mowers."

Jim:

I'm very sorry to hear that, I had my hopes up there for about five minutes. It sure looks better to me than cross cutting. Maybe up and back gang mowing again isn't a bad way to go.  

[Don_Mahaffey]

Well I can't speak for everyone out in golf land but I get my fwys done faster (about 2-3 hours) when I contour mow vs. cross cutting. Less turning, longer runs, less trees to deal with on the edges...it's just faster at my course. But, there is one exception, it's practiaclly impossible to contour mow (up & back) when caught in play. If your course is super busy, it could be faster to cross cut because once the stripes are "burned" in the mower can bounce around in between golfers. Like a lot of things, it's specific to your course whether one way is faster or more cost effective then another.

[Duane Sharpe]

I would like to add that cutting straight up and down increases the turning of the fairway unit on your aprons.  The tracking of the unit on the same pattern daily will in turn create tracking and ripping of turf.........especially on your aprons. The cross cut eliminates the constant turning again on your aprons.  
The cross cut also stands the grass up better creating a better lie.  When cutting the same direction, it lays the turf down in the same direction creating grain.
Just my thoughts.
Duane

[Jim Thompson]

Don,

We started out contour mowing, but the third or fourth time we mowed it just looked awful; like worms mating.  So we decided to cross cut everything.  We mow in an 8 direction cycle about 6 holes a day with 5300's. I prefer team mowing in right / left two block cuts, but we only do it the week of The Open but it looks cool.  We also use front Wiley's with rear minuteman rollers at .35" on L-93 / Southshore mix FWs.

Cheers!

JT

[TEPaul]

"We started out contour mowing, but the third or fourth time we mowed it just looked awful; like worms mating."

LIKE WORMS MATING???

Jeeesus Chriiist Jim, it sounds like you're in the wrong business. You should've been an artist!

Don and Duane:

Interesting responses. Now I'm depressed.

[S. Huffstutler]

The word should have been "Striping", as opposed to clothing removal. My point was that instead of one compact tractor and a set of gangs mowing in a traditional pattern which produces a fairway that looks dark on one side and light on the other, I must use two lightwaeight mowers and mow in different directions three times a week. The only reason that I can stripe the fairways is because I have to overseed my fairways and roughs, a totally uneccesary practice down here wher the bermuda doesn't go dormant.

Steve

[Tom_Doak]

So what is the most economical way to mow fairways without doing damage?  What pattern does it produce, if any?

I'm assuming everyone is using lightweight fairway mowers instead of gang units behind tractors, which I know is less expensive.

[Don_Mahaffey]

IMO, the most economical way would be to use a pull behind gang mowing in an up and back manner, but have a light weight fwy mower do the clean up pass and any other tight areas...up by greens, or around fwy bunkers. (I don't care how good of an operator you are it's really tough to keep a consistent edge with a pull behind gang)

Yes, you could tear up the approach, but you can tear up anything with bad operators. If the lightweight unit cut the approach perpendicular to the line of play, out 30 yards or so from the green, then the tractor unit wouldn't need to turn right in the approach. If the operator is careful and well trained he shouldn't tear anything up (especially if the course is kept dry).

[Jim_Kennedy]

Don,
It would surely be a pain, and incredibly slow, to use gangs for anything other than up and back. Our course is mowed U&B and the guys can get very close to the greens without causing damage, but we have unfettered approaches.

One thing I have noticed here in the New England is a ripple effect from lightweight mowers which (is this true? ) seems to be a side effect from too much speed over soft ground when using them in an up and back pattern.

[Nick Pozaric]

I think the 2 main ways fit 2 types of courses.  I agree that older courses look much better with the up and down, like the Masters.  We do it both ways at my course.  Its an awesome sight to see 8 mowers on one fairway doing the up and back, all lined up.  They can knock out a fairway in minutes.

[wsmorrison]

Rolling Green had cross-hatches in the fairway with a straight line across and narrower cross-hatching near the greens from anywhere from 70 to 40 yards in front of the greens. They switched to an up and back look and it looks terrific!

[Mike McGuire]

 I agree that older courses look much better with the up and down, like the Masters.  We do it both ways at my course.  Its an awesome sight to see 8 mowers on one fairway doing the up and back, all lined up.  They can knock out a fairway in minutes.

Nick -

I saw them mowing at AN this year. They had more than 8 (can't recall the exact total...enough to do it in one pass?) mowing the fairway straight back. All the grain back towards the tee. Consistant color, speed and lies.

Very impresssive sight.

[Nick Pozaric]

it is a neat sight.  People are suprised when they see a mower coming around the corner then 7 more right behind the first

[Scott Ramsay]

"Up and back" mowing saves a lot of time,wear and tear, and it has that classic look. Several years ago I tried it at The Orchards mowing time went from 12 man hours per mowing to 9 man hours( important when working for a mgt company). More importantly wasthe classic look and it was the pattern used for the women's open.
Here at Yale my time went from 15 to 12 man hours. We mow first thing in the morning with five-plex mowers equipped with roller brushes on primo/cutless moderated fairways. It is too dangerous with our topography to send out mowers during play.  

[Anthony_Nysse]

I'm in agreence with Scott on this one. The tradiational mowing pattern is so much faster-Much less turning, much less wear and tear on the rough around the golf hole. As far as worrying about grain, we switch directions every time we mow-meaning, we mow forward on the dark stripe. As stated before, with a 20-30 yard approach, there is no need to wrry about turning on the collar. I can send out 3 units and be finished in about 4 hours with moderate play. It's almost 2 hours longer mowing 10-4 or 2-8. I also personally think that traditional courses should be mowed in the U&B pattern. burning the stripes in with cross cutting is for country clubs-I always want to think of Troon North...I don't know why, though?  

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Peter Galea]

As long as it's mowed I don't care if it's striped, U&B or done in circles.
Nothing worse than shaggy or a poor quality of cut on fairways.
IMHO.

[Dan_Lucas]

We try to mow up and back whenever possible on, but on our very wide fescue FW's it gets very difficult to see where you have mowed if there is no dew and the grass is not growing very well. Also the mowers cut much more evenly when driving in a straight line, especially if there is a thatch issue. I think varying the pattern gives you a much better cut, though I agree that up/back looks the best.

Dan

[Craig Sweet]

We mow "with" one day a week and "right" (diagonal across) and  "left" on the other mow days.  "With" is easily the fastest...line the mower up and mow straight from the tee area until you hit rough...mowing this way you will end up cross mowing somewhat on dog legs. We send one mower out on the front side and one on the back..takes about 4-6 hours to mow 9 holes...lots of golfer out there.

[TEPaul]

I might add that from looking at so many old aerials of the older courses that most of the wide fairways back then that were all mowed up and back with big gang mowers pretty much had straightish lines on the fairway sides. I guess the reason for that as mentioned above that cutting in straight line is easier was the reason for that.

[ForkaB]

Can I ask a stupid question?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Rich-
  Go ahead, ask your question!

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[TEPaul]

"Can I ask a stupid question?"

Rich:

What's going on? You certainly never felt the need to ask for anyone's permission when you asked stupid questions before which have only been exceeded by your stupid remarks and nonsequitors.  

[ForkaB]

"Can I ask a stupid question?"

Rich:

What's going on? You certainly never felt the need to ask for anyone's permission when you asked stupid questions before which have only been exceeded by your stupid remarks and nonsequitors.  

OK, Tommy, maybe you can answer this one!

How much influence on ball flight, spin etc. does the direction of mowing actually have?  If the answer is "not much" then isn't it just an eye candy issue from the point of view of the player?  Of course, to the super it may be a cost issue as mentioned above.

Try to use "sequitors" (sic),Tom, if you can......

PS--Anthony.  Chime in too while Tom's is cranking up his Apple II+.

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