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Troy Alderson

Classic design and conditioning
« on: December 01, 2005, 01:05:43 PM »
What is everyone's opinion of Erin Hills GC and the USGA appointing a championship there in 2008 before the golf course is even open or playable?

I checked out the website and the course is very well done by Hurzdan and Fry.  I am looking forward to seeing the course in its finished condition.

How about the look of Kingsley Club in Michigan?  Reminds me of Alister MacKenzie and great undulating greens.

Appears Michigan has gotten the point of how golf is meant to be played and course conditioning.  Anyone from that state agree with me?  I am surprised of the percentage of golfers in Michigan.  I heard it was the highest in the nation and that's with heavy winters too.

The main question I ask is what is it going to take to get American golfers to realize that lush green is not golf and that the chemicals we are putting into the grounds to maintain these travesties has ruined the game?

Troy Alderson

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 16
Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2005, 01:33:02 PM »
Troy:

There is practically no new golf course development in northern Michigan and a lot of the courses built ten years ago are struggling, because of market saturation.  And I would take issue with your assessment of their conditioning, not many are really that firm and fast.  It's easy to let Poa annua take over here because you generally only have to overwater it for a couple of weeks in the summer when it might cook ... the rest of the time it's fine.

We do have very long days in the summer so there is plenty of time to get out and play in season.  Minnesota, too.

The Kingsley Club is an exception, it's in great shape maintenance-wise, if not membership-wise.

Troy Alderson

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2005, 01:40:24 PM »
Tom,

So what do think it is going to take to educate the golfing public about proper maintenance of golf courses?  

The GCSAA has been struggling with this for years, in my opinion, and if a supterinendent is given permission to create dry firm conditions there is backlash at the first sign of a dry brown spot.

Maybe superintedents just need to do what is right for the turf and continue the communication with the golfers.  But has color television ruined that opportunity?

Troy

TEPaul

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2005, 02:51:35 PM »
Troy:

First of all, click on the "Feature Interview" section of this website and read both parts of Scott Anderson's interview.

That's the kind of thing it'll take to get back to sane course conditioning, particularly on the older classic courses that were designed for less immaculate and basically saner course conditioning.

Will the kind of initiative Scott is looking for and trying to do something about make it this time? I think it will. I think this time it's gonna break through and start to pick up notice and converts and start to roll. It's time is here, I think.

Is it for everyone---for all courses? Probably not, matter of fact of course not, but that's not the point---the point is there're enough paying atttention now and a whole lot more in the wings. Why? Because enough golfers are beginning to see the results of it on golf courses and some pretty impressive ones too.

Is there resistance to it amongst golfers because of the love of lush green and immaculateness that we often see on TV? Sure, there has been for years but that too is changing. Perhaps the most serious opposition to it will come from the US or even world-wide golf agronomic industry. We're talking a multi-billion dollar industry here. Are they going to defend their business and their markets? Of course they will.

But I don't think they'll be so successful this time because the word is getting out. The modern golf agronomic industry is built on constant remediation and it's increasing. Some of us are calling a lot of modern golf agronomy and agronomics the "emergency ward". Some of this grass out there needs every kind of chemical and constant remediaton imaginable. Over-irrigation does not help--it hurts. The irony is---unlike human beings in an "emergency ward" who look terrible many golfers actually think golf grass looks good because (it's so lush) but that's too often what it looks like just before it completely tucks-tail and totally craps out on you.

Scott believes that golf agronomists have almost completely forgotten what Nature itself can do for the health of grass, even golf's somewhat specialized grass, if you just allow Nature the time to do what it can do, and always has.

The good new which obviously the multi-billion dollar golf agronomy industry does not wannt to hear and does not want us to hear is what Nature both can and does do in this way if you let it---is basically FREE!

More later, and I'm gonna put Scott's number on your IM. Call him---Mike DeVries did!  ;)

PThomas

  • Total Karma: -21
Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2005, 03:14:07 PM »
Troy - welcome!

as water supplies become a bigger and bigger concern, that should help things move in the right direction!
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

wsmorrison

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2005, 03:15:20 PM »
Tom P,

I don't know what happened to the feature interview with Scott Anderson.  I haven't been able to find it for a few weeks now.

TEPaul

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2005, 03:48:34 PM »
Wayne:

Whatta ya mean? It's in the menu on the "Feature Interview" section just to the left of this post.

wsmorrison

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2005, 04:00:06 PM »
It doesn't come up on my screen.  The last interview on the right menu is Dunlop White Part II and the Alfie Ward interview is on the main page.  I have to use the site search field to input Scott Anderson to find it.  When you go to the Feature Interview site you can see it on the list to the right?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2005, 04:00:49 PM by Wayne Morrison »

Tom Huckaby

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2005, 04:04:16 PM »
Wayne - that's very weird.  Do you mean to say when you open this link:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/FEATURE_INTERVIEW.html

the list of interviews in the "Interview Archive" to the right doesn't include those for Scott, going month by month with most recent at the top?

That's sure what I see, and Scott's is sure there....September and August...

TH
« Last Edit: December 01, 2005, 04:04:41 PM by Tom Huckaby »

TEPaul

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2005, 04:21:54 PM »
Wayne:

Whoa! Wooo-Woooo! Wooooooooooooooo...

Something weird is going on with either you or in your house. That interview is right there for all to read.

Here's what I suggest you do, and, like immediately. Obviously there's some bad spirit or bad Karma surrounding you or your house, whatever.

Get the kids, get Sue, get the dog and all of you take off all your clothes and burn them in the fireplace and then run buck-ass naked into the middle of the street and stand there watching your house very carefully for at least 41 minutes. Do not let a single car go by you either! At that point go back in very carefully and turn the computer back on, click on GCA, Feature Interview and you should see Scott's interview.

Oh, one more thing. DO NOT, under any circumstances, turn that computer back on unless you are buck-ass naked or God only knows what might happen to you and your entire family. You might even endanger the entire block unless you're buck-ass naked when you turn that computer back on. I also recommend you sit in your chair without your feet touching the floor when you turn it back on. This is just a basic "computer manual"  precaution but no sense in taking any chances here.

Good Luck, Amigo, I'll be waitinng to hear if you all made it through safe.

TEPaul

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2005, 04:28:15 PM »
Wayne:

You know who I think is responsible for this? I think it has to have something to do with the multi-billion dollar, world-wide, chemical pushing, water-wasteing GOLF AGRONOMIC INDUSTRY! This could be the first indication these people may stop at nothing to protect their scam, their lie, and their secret!!

Jason Blasberg

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2005, 04:53:47 PM »
TEPaul:

Good stuff ;D

Not quite Devie Emmet material but v. good.  ;)

Troy Alderson

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2005, 05:02:43 PM »
TEPaul,

I have talked with Scott Anderson about his program and we are conversing about the issue and how I can fit a similar program in at my drastically underbudgeted golf course I maintain.  The demands of the golfer for "green" do make it difficult.  In fact, I have adjusted the HVCC standards to fit Kah-Nee-Ta already and will present to the Pro when he returns from his 2 month repreave.

Paul Thomas,

You are dead on about water restrictions in the US.  We have been abusing our water resource to the detriment of good conditioning all for a "look".  The restrictions will help bring classic golf design and conditioning back to where it should be.

I agree that times are changing and the US has seen 50 years of bad management of our golf courses.  Too much perfection in the wrong places on the golf course.  Retorically, why does every blade of grass have to be cut perfectly?  Why can't the turf be thin here and there, but focus on the greens then fairways then tees for quality turf?

My normally open year golf course just got 6 inches of snow, so I have more time to research a new program for the golf course turf to fit the minimalist budget.  I love doing this stuff and can not wait until spring.

Troy

wsmorrison

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2005, 05:08:33 PM »
Honest to God, it does not come up when I go to the Feature Interview main page.  It is not on the list on the right side of the screen.  The latest interview besides Alfie's is Dunlop White's second interview.  I can only see it when I use the site search and type in Scott Anderson.

Tom,

I think you're right, the chemical industry is infecting my computer with an anti-Scott Anderson virus.  What else explains it?

TEPaul

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2005, 06:30:18 PM »
Wayne:

If you stilll can't get Scott's interview to come up just keep on with your entire family burning your clothes in the fireplace and all running into the street buck-ass naked for at least 41 minutes at a time. Just keep doing that, over and over, and eventually it's bound to work.

How about the dog? Did the dog burn his clothes before running into the street buck-ass naked? That could be the problem. I don't think he can start out in the house buck-ass naked and just run into the street buck-ass naked without having been dressed in the house at some point. I think he has to be dressed first, just like you, Sue and the kids.

So hie on down real fast to the nearest pet shop and buy about half a dozen of those little dog jackets, rush home and make him put one on first, then take it off and throw it in the fireplace and burn it and then run into the middle of the street buck-ass naked for at least 41 minutes.

After about a dozen times of doing this if that interview does not appear obviously the evil spell is pretty strong so probably the only thing to do is all of you get into the car buck-ass naked and go to a Harry Potter movie buck-ass naked.

And DO NOT under any circumstances forget to take your little buck-ass naked dog to see Harry Potter.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2005, 06:30:58 PM by TEPaul »

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 16
Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2005, 06:36:31 PM »
Wayne:

It could be a problem with your Web browser, depending on what you're using.

I use Mozilla Firefox now, and have not had any problems on Golf Club Atlas with it.  However, we recently redid our company web site, and some of the latest revisions do not show up correctly when using Firefox; they showed up fine when using Explorer.  Apparently Firefox has memorized an earlier version of the same page and that overrides what's there today.

wsmorrison

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2005, 06:45:13 PM »
Tom D,

You nailed it.  When I go use Explorer the entire lineup of Feature Interviews are there to be seen.  I now use Mozilla Firefox almost exclusively and that is where I can only see the present interview and the list up to Dunlop's second interview.  Wierd.  I'll try and refresh and see if that does anything.  Except for this glitch I love Firefox.

Nope, refreshing did nothing.  I wonder how to override their override.  Any computer savvy types know how to fix the glitch?  
« Last Edit: December 01, 2005, 06:46:28 PM by Wayne Morrison »

Joe Hancock

  • Total Karma: 5
Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2005, 06:46:39 PM »
Troy,

I can give you some insight on what the protocol might be to do the drying-out thing on a budget. I've been at it for 8 years now, with remarkable conditions in what was a very tough turf year for many.

If you want to call me tomorrow at the office to talk about it, that would be fine.

Joe

616.363.2162

" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

TEPaul

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2005, 08:06:53 PM »
Wayne, you silly rabbit, didn't you know that Mozilla Foxfire's majority stockholder is a consortium of companies from the US AGRONOMY INDUSTRY??

wsmorrison

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2005, 08:15:10 PM »
Those bastards!  I am too naive, Tom.  Maybe if I lived inside the Beltway for a time I could see these conspiracies for what they are; a deliberate attempt to forestall firm and fast with over watering and chemical applications.  Wait, that's it!  The water companies have to be in on it too.  My God, Tom,  President Cheyney needs to know!

Craig Disher

  • Total Karma: 0
Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2005, 09:13:01 PM »
Wayne - and anyone else using Firefox,
I had multiple problems with many websites until I switched to FF 1.5. It's a beta version but apparently is almost completely bug free even though it's still officially in test. I haven't had a problem since I started using it.

wsmorrison

Re:Classic design and conditioning
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2005, 09:29:29 PM »
Thanks, Craig.  I'll try to upgrade today.

I just finishing upgrading to 1.5 and I can see all of the Feature Interviews now.  Nice going, Craig!  Normally I get upgrade notices from Firefox.  I guess because this is beta testing they didn't notify me yet.  It seems to work just fine.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2005, 09:35:24 PM by Wayne Morrison »