Classical features that should die, Vol 2..The Redan

[wsmorrison]

What Redan holes (conceptual or otherwise) have you played, John?

[John Kavanaugh]

My favorite is the sixth at Norwood Hills East...the most traditional would be the 16th at St Louis CC, but it is a reverse.  I only call either a redan because people I respect have done the same...if pressed I doubt that either is.   I have played many holes where people say this or that about a redan..but really,  how many could a guy have played that has never golfed east of Indiana.  btw..Southern states aren't east.

Looks like I have also played the 13th at Lookout Mountain...I can't remember it damnit.  Please understand that has no bearing on the course as I was walking and remember one point being quite oxegen depleted..

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jaka,
I always thought it was fun to stand on the tee of a par 3 and actually have to do something with the shot.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Have you played # 17 at Pacific Dunes ?
[/color]

No, I have not played the hole...

I don't see how considering that I have never played a Redan worth a dan that actually playing the hole would influence my opinion one way or another.  

Ah, the olde "ignorance is bliss" theory.  [/color]

Funny thing...turns out I am right to boot.

About what ?[/color]

[John Kavanaugh]

Jaka,
I always thought it was fun to stand on the tee of a par 3 and actually have to do something with the shot.

Jim,

If that is so..please explain to me what you do at an eden..

[John Kavanaugh]

Back on subject..

Pat,

I find that I am no more or less ignorant after playing any given hole, or course for that matter.   I have yet to finish a hole and say to myself "now I get it"..

I was right that Rans critique of the 17th at Pacific Dunes was wrong and misleading...not to mention dangerous in the wrong hands.  The hole is best as stands and only would be downgraded by adhearing to the Redan mystique....I don't need to play the hole to know that..I come to it through faith.

[Patrick_Mucci]

John,

Do you remember what Chou En Lai or Mao Tse Tung responded when they asked him what impact the French Revolution had ?

He said, "It's too early to tell".

A lot of these relatively new courses may be tinkered with in the years to come, just as Ross tinkered with PH # 2 for 26 years or so and just as CBM did with NGLA.

Hence, it may be that # 17 at Pacific Dunes will remain as originally built, or, that it's modified in the years to come.

The yardage, especially with the site wind is really beyond that of "template" Redans.

I think it's an outstanding hole from a visual and playable perspective, but, who knows, it may be fine tuned in the years to come.

[Jeff_Brauer]

John Cullum said:


.....But that is not as silly as the discussions about the "reverse redan." There is no such thing as a reverse redan, it is merely a "vision of the anointed."


Could it be the vision of a dyslexic?

[Peter Galea]

I haven't read all of this, and I have only played one "real" redan, the one at NGLA (BDAW). I have played numerous "redan-like" holes, and I've got to tell you...I just can't' wait to play the next. If I know there is one in the sequence of holes that I will be playing, I can think of nothing else, but how I will play it and praying I will execute the shot. You know, that low running hook into the bank that will take the contour the way it was intended.
There ain't nothing better in golf, than that feeling.
This is one Classical feature that should be in the freakin' Smithsonian, right next to Lindbergh's plane or something.

[John Pflum]

John,  Maybe your problem is that you (we) know too much.  If you didn't know what a Redan was, you might just say, "This is a cool hole" instead of "Oh, here comes another Redan clone, I wonder if it will be faithful to the original."

That's what I thought when I played PD.  Honestly, (ducking for cover) I have no idea what a "redan" is except to assume it is some kind of template/classic design for a golf hole.  

I loved 17 at PD.  It's a great hole visually and there is plenty of room in the bail out areas if you are too chicken to flirt with those evil front bunkers.  I used those bail outs (I guess I'm chicken  :-) ) two out of three times I played the hole.  I loved it.  

[john_stiles]

I've enjoyed playing most every Redan type hole.  

Even before I was more exposed to gca and GCA, those holes were fun to play.   You are always thinking, do I bounce it in today, or fly it to the hole, etc, etc.

Need to keep this classic alive.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jaka,
I always thought it was fun to stand on the tee of a par 3 and actually have to do something with the shot.

Jim,

If that is so..please explain to me what you do at an eden..

Jaka,
My point, exactly.