Long par 3's. Do they still exist?

[Yannick Pilon]

Is there any long par 3's in today's pro golf?

Par 5's and par 4's seem to get longer week after week, but par 3's don't seem to get the same treatment.

Is there any great 250+ yards par 3's out there?

If so, which ones and what makes them great?

[Joel_Stewart]

Olympic Club just extended #3 to play 258 from a new back tee.   It should quite a challenge for the 08 Amateur and 2012 Open.

[Tyler Kearns]

Yannick,

I think the 4th hole at Riviera is in the neighborhood of 250 yards, and Oakmont just extended the 8th hole to at least that standard in preparation for the upcoming United States Open.

Here in my hometown, the Canadian Tour plays a 235 yarder, straight uphill at Pine Ridge. It's a true brute, forcing many players to hit fairway woods from the tee, and routinely the hardest hole on the Tour, aided by the fact that the green is an inverted saucer.

TK

[A_Clay_Man]

Is there any long par 3's in today's pro golf?

Am I the only one who wished Yannick left off the word "Pro"?

[rjsimper]

18 at East Lake, though not 250+, plays to every bit of it's 235 (or more) uphill and into the wind...

[rjsimper]

Yannick,

I think the 4th hole at Riviera is in the neighborhood of 250 yards, and Oakmont just extended the 8th hole to at least that standard in preparation for the upcoming United States Open.

Unfortunately the 4th at the Riv, despite the length (I think it was playing to a soggy 237 or so in this year's Nissan), has lost much of its luster over the years thanks to the turf conditions taking the running shot out of play

[Evan_Green]

If we can extend past just courses that hold pro events, then how about #3 at Barona?

260 yard par 3 from the tips. 298 yards from the tips to the back of the green. Fantastic bunkers and a fantastic (and huge) green.

[rjsimper]

If we can extend past just courses that hold pro events, then how about #3 at Barona?

260 yard par 3 from the tips. 298 yards from the tips to the back of the green. Fantastic bunkers and a fantastic (and huge) green.

Talking Stick North - I forget which hole...11?  Right around 260 and ripe for a low left to right shot to run up a relatively open front apron to the green...I found it to be an excellent one-shotter.

[Jim Nugent]

Olympic Club just extended #3 to play 258 from a new back tee.   It should quite a challenge for the 08 Amateur and 2012 Open.

What club, or range of clubs, do you think the field in a U.S. Open would hit to that green?  Figure no wind, and middle green pin location.    

[Yannick Pilon]

"Am I the only one who wished Yannick left off the word "Pro"?"

Adam,

You're right.  Let's take the word "pro" out of the equation...

Is there still such a thing as a long par 3 on today's golf courses?  

They certainly seem to be out of fashion.  Even when we route our courses, it feels as though a long par three with no significant hazard other than the length sounds boring... as if our clients expect that par 3's will have something flashier like water or monster bunkers to make them look cool....

Just curious to find out if people know of any really long interesting par threes out there....

[ForkaB]

Yup, Yannick

There are a lot of them.  They used to be called "Short/Medium Par 4's"........

[wsmorrison]

Flynn designs almost always included a long par 3 between 220 and 260 yards.  In his day that meant driver.  Today, well we know that is no longer the case for the most part.  However he did design the uphill 10th at Rolling Green at 260 yards which continues to demand driver from a number of players despite the fact that the middle of the back tee is 243 yards.  As I said, the hole plays uphill to a large 40-yard long green.  From tip of the tee to back of the green it is 275 yards.  Flynn contoured the ground in front of the green to allow a low running draw off the right greenside bunker to feed onto the green.  

During US Amateur super-qualifying we saw a fair number of players hitting iron.  I would've hoped that that would result in the green committee wanting to put in the Flynn tee another 17 yards back.  Alas, they thought of something else.  Maybe the cost of maintaining the dumb par 5 18th tee at the base of the north side of a large tree and the maintenance of the 2nd tee amidst some large trees yet still in direct line of slicers off the fifth tee prevented the money from being spent.

This photograph is from the back of the front tee:

[TEPaul]

I believe I heard Oakmont's #8 for the Open may be 280+ (maybe something like 288 from the very back). IF so that's certainly a very long par 3. Some of the top long players may even use a wood!   But maybe not, who really knows? Last year in the PA State Better Ball I watched one of our very good and long young players on the 245 yard #3 at White Manor hit a 4 iron a mile in the air and land it just hole high in the middle of the green.

[Mark_Fine]

Jim,
Joel will chime in I'm sure, but many of the pros will still hit an iron on that hole (though the air can be quite heavy at Olympic).  It does play downhill a little (not as much as it looks).  

Wayne is right about Flynn liking long par threes.  We are in the process of nudging back the back tee on #3 at Lehigh as we speak.  It will be lowered a bit as well and when finished play in the 240 yard range.  I'd like to extend it a bit further but at this point we are keeping it in this range.  

At Cherry Hills on the par three #8, we plan to move the championship tee to the 300 yard range.  The green is being re-oriented as well as over the years the line of play was changed and we want that restored, especially for such a long shot.  When finished, the original design intent and look of Flynn will return.
Mark

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Yannick

Define your terms. What do you mean by "today's golf courses?"

Do you mean newer courses built within a certain time period? Otherwise, everyone will be giving examples of long par3s built by the Golden Age archies. I don't consider those "today's golf courses" although we still play them today. As noted with the examples of Oakmont,etc., those courses are being reworked to lengthen holes.

Steve

[Jim Franklin]

TEP -

Oakmont's #8 is 285 from the front of the back tee and 300 from the back of the tee. As you are aware though, it plays slightly downhill and I would bet a lot of the pros will hit irons.

[Tom Huckaby]

I continue to find it interesting how far everyone seems to hit the ball, to the extent we are now calling "long par threes" what "used to be called "Short/Medium Par 4's"."

I played a 195 yard par three the other day, into the wind.  Hit a damn nice three wood eight feet away and made a deuce.  I'd call that a long par three.

Seriously, anything over 180 yards is a long par three for me.  And there remain tons of those.

Yes, for the pros it's a different issue.  But are all of you guys hitting the ball as far as them?

285 is a par 4 for me.  Lucky the 4th at OClub is downhill or I'd be thinking of the back tee there as a par 4 also.

The sky has not fallen.

TH

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I am still waiting to see my first "great" long par 3 hole..
I have never liked them and probably never will, the need to hit a club longer than a 2/3 iron on a hole that claims to be a par 3, to me defeats the entire objective of what a par 3 should be.

If it was up to me no par 3 would ever exceed 200 yards, and the accuracy factor, that in my opinion is what a par 3 should be testing, would be of paramount importance.

Two of the greatest, longish par 3's can be found at Merion..numbers 3 and 17..although many like me believe that number 17 is spoiled by the extra yardage..great at 210..too long at 235.

The added length on number 14 at Pine Valley has nothing to enhance a good hole..and the great par 3'3 in this world...#12 at ANGC...#16 AT ANGC...#12 at Royal Birkdale...#11at ST Andrews for example have not been altered...sorry just not a great lover of long par threes.

[Yannick Pilon]

Micheal,

Why not test the accuracy of golfers on holes longer than 200 yards?  What's wrong with testing the accuracy of golfers with their 3 or 5 wood, even with their drivers?

[Jim Franklin]

Isn't #17 at Merion more like 250-260 yards now?

[rjsimper]

Micheal,

Why not test the accuracy of golfers on holes longer than 200 yards?  What's wrong with testing the accuracy of golfers with their 3 or 5 wood, even with their drivers?

Or furthermore, do you find the same problem with the 480 yard par 4 which demands a second shot with a fairway metal?

[Tyler Kearns]

Yannick,

Stanley Thompson had a penchant for including an ultra-long par-three into most of his designs. For the vast majority of players, these holes remain long.

TK

[Bill Shotzbarger]

Isn't #17 at Merion more like 250-260 yards now?

Yes, but it's downhill.

#15 at Philadelphia Country Club is without a doubt the hardest par 3 I've ever played. 230, STRAIGHT UPHILL, to a green you can't see because of the topography. The hole is almost impossible to birdie, and the club claims that in 70 years no one has ever made an ace.

And right next to it is another tough 3, #8 on the club's Centennial Nine. Almost always wrecks my nine.

[Doug Siebert]

No offense, but you guys who are saying that any par 3 over 200 yards is too long are under no obligation to play from the tips, you know.

I think there's a place for par 3s that even the longest pros and amateurs are hitting woods to, and might be unreachable for most everyone even with a driver if you catch it with an unfavorable wind.  Given the inflation in distance, especially in the last few years, par 3s are the best chance for the course to force a player to play a shot with a longer iron or wood, or force a go/no go decision on him that he's perhaps uncomfortable with.  Its one thing to test that go/no go decision when its a choice between taking a chance for an eagle putt or simply a birdie, its another when a layup produces a one putt par opportunity.

Why is it everyone is universally in favor of the half par hole when the "half" is in their favor, but the vote is less than overwhelming for those holes when the half against them?  There are many people who don't seem to like the 500 yard par 4 all that much, either.  If you run into a 285 yard par 3, there's nothing stopping you from playing it just like it was a 285 yard par 4, and laying up and hoping for 3 and trying to make no worse than 4.

And to be honest, if we don't allow par 3s to stretch to 300 yards and a bit beyond, we'll probably see precious few holes in the 250-310 yard range in the future.  And that would be too bad, because those holes are quite a lot of fun, regardless of whether the scorecard has the numeral "3" or "4" next to the yardage.

[wsmorrison]

Bill,

I believe the 15th at Philadelphia Country Club has been aced several times over the 78 years its been around.  I used to hear that it was only aced twice but my mother-in-law (a member for 45 years) told me she knows of a few people that have aced it.  I asked the superintendent, Mike McNulty, how many aces was he aware of but he wasn't sure.  

Here's a so-so picture of the fabulous fifteenth