Toronto GCA gathering

« **on:** November 10, 2005, 10:19:33 AM »

I think I've covered off most of those in the Toronto area through an email I sent out today, but if I've missed you and you're interested in coming for a couple of pints and some good ol' fashioned arguing about golf, then shoot me an instant message with an email address and I'll include you in our plans. These have been fun in the past, especially when Ian Andrew and Ben Cowan-Dewar start fighting over whether Highlands Links is the best course in Canada.
No date has been set yet, but we'll have something firmly arranged in the next week, depending on what works best for all involved.

« **Reply #1 on:** November 10, 2005, 07:00:36 PM »

Hey all: Looks like the planned date is Wed., Nov. 23 at an location to be determined. And we're even inviting Jeff Mingay, though his is from Windsor! The date may change though....

« **Reply #2 on:** November 10, 2005, 07:06:41 PM »

Damn, that's the day before Thanksgiving for us 'Murcans. I was hoping to meet some of our esteemed posters and finally pass out some shirts to our Toronto contingent.

Oh well, I hope our friends from Toronto can make Pat's May gathering. Have fun.

« **Reply #3 on:** November 10, 2005, 07:29:37 PM »

I'm honoured

« **Reply #4 on:** November 10, 2005, 07:35:22 PM »

Okay, George. When exactly is American Thanksgiving? We have one American who is living in Toronto and I'm hoping he'll be able to make it if it is on the Wednesday. Otherwise we could push it back to the following week.

« **Reply #5 on:** November 12, 2005, 08:16:41 PM »

« **Reply #6 on:** November 12, 2005, 10:24:43 PM »

I thought it was the 24th ?

By the way, what arguement.........

1st - St. George's - St.G 1 up
2nd - halve - St.G 1 up
3rd - Highland - all square
4th - Highland - Highlands 1 up
5th - St. Georges - all square
6th - halve - all square
7th - halve - all square
8th - Highland - Highlands 1 up
9th - St. Georges - all square
10th - Highland - Highlands 1 up
11th - St. Georges - all square
12th - St. Georges - 1 up
13th - Highland - all square
14th - St. Georges - 1 up
15th - Highland - all square
16th - halve - all square
17th - St. Georges - 1 up
18th - St. Georges - 2 up

« **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2005, 08:11:24 AM »

Not this again, Ian!

1st - SG 1up
2nd - (HL) AS
3rd - HL 1up
4th - HL 2up
5th - HL 1up
6th - (SG) AS
7th - AS
8th - AS
9th - AS

10th - AS
11th - SG 1up
12th - SG 2up
13th - (HL) SG 1up
14th - SG 2up (even though I love 14 @ HL!)
15th - (HL) SG 1up
16th - (HL) AS
17th - AS
18th - SG 1up

Man, it's always one hell of a match

« **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2005, 09:34:40 AM »

Jeff,

If you break them down differently it becomes even more clear cut.

par fives (best against best)

Highland 15 - St. George's 11 - Highland
Highland 7 - St. George's 15 - Highland
Highland 6 - St. George's 9 - Highland
Highland 16 - St. George's 4 - Highland

par fours (best against best)

Highland 2 - St. George's 2 - square
Highland 13 - St. George's 14 - Highland (love 13)
Highland 4 - St. George's 5 - St. George's
Highland 14 - St. George's 7 - St. George's
Highland 18 - St. George's 12 - St. George's
Highland 1 - St. George's 17 - St. George's
Highland 8 - St. George's 18 - St. George's
Highland 9 - St. George's 1 - St. George's
Highland 11 - St. George's 10 - St. George's

par threes (best to worst)

Highland 5 - St. George's 6 - square
Highland 10 - St. George's 16 - St. George's
Highland 3 - St. George's 13 - square
Highland 17 - St. George's 8 - Highland
Highland 12 - St. George's 3 - St. George's

3 up. No course can match Highland's par fives, but no Canadian course can touch St. George's par fours. (Catarqui remains the king of the par threes).

« **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2005, 09:42:51 AM »

Interesting breakdown, Ian.

Cataraqui's par-three holes are excellent. However, Jasper and Banff may be the "kings of the one-shotters" in Canada!

« **Reply #10 on:** November 13, 2005, 01:40:08 PM »

Jeff,

...and unlike Ben, I'll admit when I'm wrong

Banff 4 - Jasper 9th - Catarqui 15th
Banff 2 - Jasper 15th - Cataraqui - 3rd
Banff 10 - Jasper 4th - Catarqui - 8th
Banff 8/13 - Jasper 7th - Catarqui 12th

Banff - 1 up
Jaspar - square
halve - Jasper/Banff
Catarqui (but doesn't matter - the other threes are all OK)

Your right either Jasper or Banff

« **Reply #11 on:** November 13, 2005, 01:44:16 PM »

hey guys,

interesting 'match'..

I'd have to agree with you jeff on the par 3s though... even though three of Cataraqui's are great, the eighth hole is rather average (at best even).

« **Reply #12 on:** November 13, 2005, 02:04:06 PM »

Ian,

Your numbering is still off by 4 holes on Banff!!

I like Little Bow more than Rundle - but maybe because in my head the bump is shaved tight.

As for Jasper -
Bad Baby and Cavell were a tie for me.

I can't wait to see HL & SG.

« **Reply #13 on:** November 13, 2005, 03:45:25 PM »

1 - SG 1
2 - Even
3 - HL 1
4 - HL 2
5 - HL 1
6 - HL 2
7 - HL 3
8 - Halve
9 - Halve
10 - Halve
11 - HL 2
12 - HL 1
13 - HL 2
14 - HL 1
15 - HL 2
16 - HL 3
17 - HL 2
18 - Halve

Highlands wins 2 up, plus it is not in a housing development and kills SG on natural beauty.

I fear you both have lost it.

« **Reply #14 on:** November 13, 2005, 04:59:53 PM »

This is great to get the juices going for our GCA Toronto Chapter meeting...I'll wade in...

1- St. George's
2- Halved (tough pick, that one)
3- Highlands
4- Highlands (although I really like 4 at StG)
5- St. George's
6- Halved
7- Highlands (best hole in Canada I've seen)
8- Halved
9- Halved
10- St. George's
11- St. George's
12- St. George's
13- Highlands
14- St. George's
15- Highlands
16- Highlands
17- Halved
18- Halved

Too close to call, although I don't these two courses make for a good match play scenario...I like the way Ian breaks it down. Highlands par 5's are worth the price of admission, St. George's par 4's are unbeatable (although Hamilton and The National could have a say in that) and I'd give the slight edge to Highlands in the par 3's. Cataraqui beats them both in 3's, with nods to Toronto Golf, Scarboro, Hamilton, Redtail, Capilano, Brantford, Highland (London), Eagle's Nest, Beacon Hall...

To further sort out Highlands vs St. George's, Highlands wins in the scenery department (although St. G is a beautiful urban parkland setting), and Highlands has incredibly interesting greens . St. George's blows away Highlands with respect to bunkering and conditioning.

If given the choice to play either tomorrow, I'd be on a plane to Cape Breton. Highlands is so unique, it's difficult to compare it to other courses.

« **Reply #15 on:** November 13, 2005, 05:00:19 PM »

Ha!

You know how much I love Highlands Links, Ben. It amazes me that every time I pit HL and St. Geo. against each other, St. Geo. wins! It amazes me.

Maybe I have lost it... working on these Cabot routing alternatives

« **Reply #16 on:** November 13, 2005, 05:06:46 PM »

Matt makes several good points.

1. Conditions at St. Geo., including turf and bunkers, is way better. Always will be for good reasons.

2. Highlands Links has much more interesting greens. I agree. Many of the greens, if not all, at St. Geo.'s have been tinkered with and are comparatively dull.

3. If I was given a choice, I'd be on a plane to Ingonish as well. No doubt!

« **Reply #17 on:** November 13, 2005, 06:41:52 PM »

Would love to wade in to the HL vs SG "debate" but I would have HL up 10 and 8 having not played SG .

Although I do have a course guide around somewhere for SG.

I am always amazed at the memory of holes you folks have. I played HL this past summer but have to pull out the scorecard to remind of the individual holes when you guys start these comparisons.

Robert, have you settled on a date for the Toronto get together? I really want to attend this time.

Thanks, Dave

« **Reply #18 on:** November 13, 2005, 09:59:22 PM »

Guys: It turns out that Thursdays are tough for a number of people, so I'm wondering whether Friday, Nov. 25 or the following Friday, Dec. 2 are better for anyone. There are a couple of relocated Americans in our midst for whom the 25 is tough due to Thanksgiving (who has ever heard of Thanksgiving in November!), so I'm wondering whether Dec. 2 is better. Let me know and we'll come up with a firm date by Wednesday.

Looking forward to drinks and debates over the relative merits of National Golf Club of Canada and whether it warrants a spot in the Top 100 in the world. Mr. Barard will put forth the supportive argument.

« **Reply #19 on:** November 13, 2005, 10:12:57 PM »

Jeff,

You routing Cabot?

Jeff said (between drinks obviously) "Highlands Links has much more interesting greens. I agree. Many of the greens, if not all, at St. Geo.'s have been tinkered with and are comparatively dull. "

Highland has better greens, no question, but calling St. George's dull is something I disagree with. The greens are very difficult, mainly due to the pitch of the slope. Holes like 6 and 7 have great greens.

Ben,

You had 2 up with 3 to go.
The last three at St. George's is a far better finish than the last three at Highlands. I still get 1 up St. Geoege's. Your $500 shoes are too tight and they're squeezing your brain.

Matt,

The 17th holes are even, are you nuts?

Anyone who has a match that ends with a tie can't be a scotch drinker.

Hey hack writer, why can't we do Friday night?

If Thompson can avoid Tuesday and Wednesday nights, I'll be there.

« **Reply #20 on:** November 14, 2005, 09:05:24 AM »

Ian,

You missed the operative word - "comparatively". I didn't say the greens at St. George's are dull. I said they're comparatively dull. Big difference!

[Rod and I have worked on the routing for Cabot together. We were working through some options, and made a few changes over the past few weeks.]

You think the last three at St. George's are that much better than Highlands Links, really? The finishing stretch at St. George's is definitely more difficult, but the same three holes at Ingonish are pretty good.

For one, I think the par-three 17th at Highlands Links is much better than 16 at St. George's.

I'm considering coming up... a Friday would probably be best for me too.

« **Reply #21 on:** November 15, 2005, 10:44:49 AM »

The plan is to go forward with a gathering Dec. 2 (a Friday) somewhere in central Toronto. Last time we met in the Beach and we may well do so again. It is easily accessible from the Don Valley and at least three guys of the group live nearby.

Does that work for the interested parties?

« **Reply #22 on:** November 15, 2005, 08:24:33 PM »

I'm definately in.........same place as last time would be good (Murphy's law - great selection of beers)

« **Reply #23 on:** November 15, 2005, 11:29:42 PM »

OK, let's make it Murphy's Law (at Kingston and Queen just outside the Beaches). That way the member of the ASGCA can share a cab ride back to our 'hood.

Proposed discussion list: St. George's -- great or featuring the dullest greens ever (put forth by Mr. Mingay); Highlands Links -- Canada's best routing, or just lumpy (by Mr. Cowan-Dewar, who will be absent in protest of the Canadian participation in war in Iraq); Ballantrae -- Canada's great golf secret? (by Mr. Thompson); and Golf Writing in Canada -- after all these years, why is Lorne Rubenstein the only one of any importance (put forth by Mr. Andrew).

The discussions will be followed by a presentation on pond reclamation and construction, led by thoroughly lubricated Mr. Andrew with full powerpoint imaging.

Can't wait for Dec. 2!

« **Reply #24 on:** November 16, 2005, 08:57:13 AM »

Rob and all,

Who's 99% sure they'll be there? Curious,

News:

Robert Thompson

Robert Thompson

George Pazin

Jeff_Mingay

Robert Thompson

Robert Thompson

Ian Andrew

Jeff_Mingay

Ian Andrew

Jeff_Mingay

Ian Andrew

Ryan Crago

Mike Nuzzo

Ben Cowan-Dewar

Matthew MacKay

Jeff_Mingay

Jeff_Mingay

Dave Kemp

Robert Thompson

Ian Andrew

Jeff_Mingay

Robert Thompson

Ian Andrew

Robert Thompson

Jeff_Mingay